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GT86 Cosworth
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why Remap?

Why don't toyobaru get it right first time? I mean why does Joe Bloggs at the local tuning firm know better than Toyobaru? Is it because a remap is individual to that particualr engine?

I guess a con is that it will void the warrenty
.....

A Pro is potentially more power!


please discuss.....
 

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Better economy. It's also not just more peak power, should be more power throughout the range which means better drivability around town as well as giving it beans. There is talk that having multiple maps on the ECUTek means you could have a dedicated economy map too, and a valet mode so that the muppets that service/fix your car don't take it for a joyride



It will probably void the warranty as far as engine internals go, but that's about it. They'd have to prove the re-map to be at fault too.
 

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It's also about who does the mapping.

Track record very important.
 

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ICantAffordAnLFA said:
It's also about who does the mapping.

Track record very important.



This isvery true, they will know how to map correctly and care about the finer details.



Are you thinking about the GB by any chance mate? You could always come down for the day and have a good chat with the guys at Litchfield and us. Nothing better than talking directly with the people that know the best
Might twist your arm too
 

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Pro's - If you have a valid reason for a remap (e.g. a radical change) then it's a pre-requisite

Con's - Waste of time on a stock'ish setup
 

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You can technically void warranty on powertrain components, e.g. engine/transmission
 

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Kodename47 said:
ICantAffordAnLFA said:
It's also about who does the mapping.

Track record very important.

 

 This is very true, they will know how to map correctly and care about the finer details.

 

Are you thinking about the GB by any chance mate? You could always come down for the day and have a good chat with the guys at Litchfield and us. Nothing better than talking directly with the people that know the best
 Might twist your arm too
Been talking to Iain for a long while now

Car comes back from him next week........
 

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gt_sjo said:
Pro's - If you have a valid reason for a remap (e.g. a radical change) then it's a pre-requisite

Con's - Waste of time on a stock'ish setup
But is that actually true..... It seems you'll get similar gains to an exhaust system on a stock map, and the cost is similar if not less, but I doubt that if someone did an exhaust swap it would be deemed pointless? Obviously with I/H/E then map it you'll see bigger gains, but to say it's a waste is a bit of a generalisation.

ICantAffordAnLFA, I know you have mate..... I was talking to GT86Owner
Probably wasn't very clear though
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
But my quesion is:
Why don't toyobaru get it right first time? I mean why does Joe Bloggs at the local tuning firm know better than Toyobaru?



Toyobaru have hundreds of highly talented engineers, sohow is someone like Iain Litchfield able to do a better job?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
gt_sjo said:
Pro's - If you have a valid reason for a remap (e.g. a radical change) then it's a pre-requisite



Con's - Waste of time on a stock'ish setup


Such as putting high lift race CAMs on....


Waste of time because you'll get little gain as toyobaru have done a good job in the first place and any extra power is trading something else such as Catalist reliabiliy or economy or low rev torque.... and really those joe bloggs at the tuning firm dont do months of testing on a tune to determine what best ofr the engine mechanically.
 

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Perhaps coz he has nothing to do with Toyota that's why...
He cares more about customer service than they do....I m o that is
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Kodename47 said:
ICantAffordAnLFA said:
It's also about who does the mapping.

Track record very important.



This isvery true, they will know how to map correctly and care about the finer details.



Are you thinking about the GB by any chance mate? You could always come down for the day and have a good chat with the guys at Litchfield and us. Nothing better than talking directly with the people that know the best
Might twist your arm too


I am interested to learn a bit more about engine mapping. As an Engineer (electronics) myself I find it hard to believe these tuners can do a better job than a dedicated world class team of engineers with huge R&D budgets to fully test the engine and it mappings....... Edited by: GT86Owner
 

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I vaguely remember being mentioned on here that the stock maps caters for different countries with varying temperatures, humidity, weather conditions as well as quality of fuel used, so there's a large margin of error built into the map, what the tuners do is fine tune the ECU to it's optimum performance for our conditions thus getting the most out of the car and ultimately reducing that margin of error. This is what I am lead to believe though so correct me if I'm wrong....but it makes sense.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Keethos said:
I vaguely remember being mentioned on here that the stock maps caters for different countries with varying temperatures, humidity, weather conditions as well as quality of fuel used, so there's a large margin of error built into the map, what the tuners do is fine tune the ECU to it's optimum performance for our conditions thus getting the most out of the car and ultimately reducing that margin of error. This is what I am lead to believe though so correct me if I'm wrong....but it makes sense.


This does make some sence
 

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GT86Owner said:
Keethos said:
I vaguely remember being mentioned on here that the stock maps caters for different countries with varying temperatures, humidity, weather conditions as well as quality of fuel used, so there's a large margin of error built into the map, what the tuners do is fine tune the ECU to it's optimum performance for our conditions thus getting the most out of the car and ultimately reducing that margin of error. This is what I am lead to believe though so correct me if I'm wrong....but it makes sense.


This does make some sence
And is true
The R&D to develop each country's cars individually would cost too much and as has been said before, they also have to adhere to emissions regulations in some countries as well. They've had to make some compromises as they decided not to boost which now-a-days is the way to produce a powerful low capacity lump that is good with CO2.

Done well, I can't see it risking any components. I don't think the cat heat should be a problem as it won't produce as much heat as a boosted performance car, and look how much power they can put out without destroying cats. I've not known it to be a problem in sub 250bhp Hondas with less capacity and higher RPM bands with older cats
None of us will be headed for that sort of power yet.
 

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I could harp on about engine calibration until the cows come home, but unfortunately the aftermarket and believers are in greater numbers so i've stopped wasting my breath over the years ;)

Yes production cars are calibrated around the world to work correctly in all environments. No that doesn't necessarily compromise anything. Yes calibrations are compromised by economy and emissions. Yes there may be minimal gains to be had on a CUSTOM map for that particular vehicle. Would you notice it? No. Placebo? Yes!


My comments are purely around remapping a n/a engine without radical changes.

Edited by: gt_sjo
 

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We are talking about 2 things here. Change measured on a dyno and subject perception of change. Repeated dynotesting will give you a reading, the more you do it the more reliable the figure with narrower confidence intervals.
As for subject feeling of power change, then it has to be a double blind, randomised experiment. You will need cars identical except for ECU map change. Drivers who do not know which car is which, driving a standard course with variables controlled for as much as possible. Then measure thesubjective change. Repeat many times. The perceived difference when there is none will give you the 'placebo' rate. This can then be controlled for,from those who perceive correctly when there is a change.

Yes people will differ with sensitivity to change, but by random assignment to either stock or ecu map car, that ishould be controlled for unless one group has a bias to extra sensory perception.

So far anecdotal reports of a feeling of change or no change is purely hypothetical until you have results of this experiment. Anything else is anecdotal, which may or may not be accurate.

Unless this experiment is done, enjoy the happy debates about perceived changes in power. i personally have better things to do, like waiting for my GT86 and praticing my Wax on wax off Jedi techniques.
 
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