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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Seriously tempted by one of these, to replace my DS3 DSport THP.

Drove a GT86 last week, and a BRZ at the weekend (the latter with a v. enthusiastic salesman who turned off the traction control and had me driving round a roundabout faster & faster to explore the handling - the Toyota salesman said he was under strict orders not to turn the TC off on test drives - boo hoo!).


Loved the feel (and the sound) of the thing, but less impressed with the performance tbh - once the initial thrill wears off, I suspect it could get irksome on a daily basis having to wring it out to 7000 rpm just to get a shift on. Perhaps we've all been spoiled by turbos?


Loved the BRZ WRC blue colour, but a 9 month waiting list put me off. Ideally I would like a longer drive before signing on the dotted line - could I live with it on a daily basis, or is it just a weekend car? (and I've already got one of those - a Barchetta).


Anyway, just stopping by to say hello.
 

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Kodename47 said:
Welcome along mate. Having been a Type R driver, I don't know what all this boost shinanigans are about
I find it's fine.... but it's not for everyone. As for all out performance tho, surely it's just a fast as the DS?






I was originally looking at a DS3 BTW.... I would rather spend my pennies on the 86
It faster than the DS3. It just that Toyota have published conservative specs.

I difference it the with the DS3 being a turbo, it can get a move on just by using the first 4krpms.
 

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gar074 said:
Seriously tempted by one of these, to replace my DS3 DSport THP.

Drove a GT86 last week, and a BRZ at the weekend (the latter with a v. enthusiastic salesman who turned off the traction control and had me driving round a roundabout faster & faster to explore the handling - the Toyota salesman said he was under strict orders not to turn the TC off on test drives - boo hoo!).


Loved the feel (and the sound) of the thing, but less impressed with the performance tbh - once the initial thrill wears off, I suspect it could get irksome on a daily basis having to wring it out to 7000 rpm just to get a shift on. Perhaps we've all been spoiled by turbos?


Loved the BRZ WRC blue colour, but a 9 month waiting list put me off. Ideally I would like a longer drive before signing on the dotted line - could I live with it on a daily basis, or is it just a weekend car? (and I've already got one of those - a Barchetta).


Anyway, just stopping by to say hello.
Welcome, and welcome to the world of high revving engines!

Turbos definitly make for an easier drive, bu those extra rev make it a bit more fun and engaging in the twisties


Edited by: GT86Owner
 

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And the GT 86 will be a bit more exclusive of course...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Trouble is, the better comparison with the GT86, both in terms of power and price, is the 207hp version of the THP that's in the DS3 Racing (and also the Pug RCZ) - and that is aseriously fast machine, and more exclusive than the GT86 will be ...
 

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Aye, DS3's are everywhere.


Having higher revs and no turbo does mean you're far less likely to be caught out mid-cornerlike you would suddenlycoming on-boost. I know that low revs in a tubby would mean that lazy progress is much easier....andso would having a big V6 up front, but all you have to do is to drop it a gear when needed. It's never bothered me in my puny 1.6 Type R..... in fact it's always given me many a smile when I've had to do that.



Horses for courses. I know many people who've gone turbo and found it very soulless and returned to high rev N/A cars.... others are addicted to that feeling you get when you come on boost.
 

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gar074 said:
Trouble is, the better comparison with the GT86, both in terms of power and price, is the 207hp version of the THP that's in the DS3 Racing (and also the Pug RCZ) - and that is aseriously fast machine, and more exclusive than the GT86 will be ...
I have to disagree abotu the DS3 Racing. It is still a little hatch thats been made a bit sporty. The GT86 is a sports car designed for purpose. Is the DS3 Racing Rear Wheel Drive with a lower centre of gravity than a Porsche Cayman?

Also 0-62 in 6.5 seconds is not much quicker than 6.9sec of the GT86!

Edited by: GT86Owner
 

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gar074 said:
Trouble is, the better comparison with the GT86, both in terms of power and price, is the 207hp version of the THP that's in the DS3 Racing (and also the Pug RCZ) - and that is aseriously fast machine, and more exclusive than the GT86 will be ...





But would you pay THAT much for what is still a DS3? £24k is an awful lot for a supermini, especially a french one. Decent specc'd Mini's are less!!! I had a good prod around one in my local showroom but I'd rather what you have TBH.



Problem is they just haven't sold and IMO it's cos they are way too overpriced. I still think £20k would be too much!



You could realistically say similar things about the RS Megane, ST and VXRs. All being boosted makes them quicker than the 86 and similar prices..... but they're all FWD and hatchbacks. If you want all out pace, an 86 is not for you. Even RWD, then a 370/350Z with the V6 will give you more punch.... but none will handle the way the 86 does.
Edited by: Kodename47
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Agree with all of that. The GT86/BRZ isan absolute hoot to drive in the twisty bits, and when you're in the mood to have some fun. Just saying that, in everyday conditions, the Racing feels much quicker, as indeed does a Scirocco, as confirmed by Autocar's in-gear acceleration times, which are pretty disappointing tbh.
 
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You've driven it, you know how it compares. Only you can possibly know whether it'll suit you - no matter what anyone here or any article says.Make your mind up and buy the car for you.
 

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I think there are a lot of people who need to come out of the closet , on this car
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
lordgrover said:
You've driven it, you know how it compares. Only you can possibly know whether it'll suit you - no matter what anyone here or any article says.Make your mind up and buy the car for you.

Which is, of course, what I'll do.


Merely sharing my first impressions, which is what forums like this are for, and happy to generate some discussion that doesn't focus on stuff like missing badges and holes in the rear wheel arches.
 

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gar074 said:
lordgrover said:
You've driven it, you know how it compares. Only you can possibly know whether it'll suit you - no matter what anyone here or any article says.
Make your mind up and buy the car for you.



Which is, of course, what I'll do.




Merely sharing my first impressions, which is what forums like this are for, and happy to generate some discussion that doesn't focus on stuff like missing badges and holes in the rear wheel arches.






haha thats true, however very important.
 

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gar074 said:
Agree with all of that. The GT86/BRZ isan absolute hoot to drive in the twisty bits, and when you're in the mood to have some fun. Just saying that, in everyday conditions, the Racing feels much quicker, as indeed does a Scirocco, as confirmed by Autocar's in-gear acceleration times, which are pretty disappointing tbh.




A high revving enginer never has good ingear accelleration times. Toyota/subaru had the aim of excellent throttle response - which you cannot have with either turbo or supercharging. they acheived that as the review in top gears say "best throttle response, 911 included".


So we have two opitons at this point. High revving or bigger lazy engine with better in gear acceleration. Well the bigger engine would make the car too heavy, especially at the front. So it had to be a small, high output NA engine to acheive what they wanted.



I understand your point about in gear acceleration and not wanting to rag it everywhere, but I just wanted to point out the compromises of having that; you dont have and excellently balanced car.



Can you tell I love this car TOO much




But then again what do I know, I have swift as a daily drive!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
GT86Owner said:
A high revving enginer never has good ingear accelleration times.

Bit of a sweeping generalisation, surely - depends on the power curve and the gearing.


Can't argue with the testers' verdict on the throttle response (although modern turbos are pretty damned good in that respect, and don't carry the weight penalty that a larger engine would bring) ... but the joy of an excellent throttle response is tempered if progress thereafter is sedate (relatively speaking) until you hit 5k rpm.
 

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gar074 said:
GT86Owner said:
A high revving enginer never has good ingear accelleration times.


Bit of a sweeping generalisation, surely - depends on the power curve and the gearing.




Can't argue with the testers' verdict on the throttle response (although modern turbos are pretty damned good in that respect, and don't carry the weight penalty that a larger engine would bring) ... but the joy of an excellent throttle response is tempered if progress thereafter is sedate (relatively speaking) until you hit 5k rpm.

Strictly speaking for an NA enginer the FA20 has an almost flat torque curve from about 2800rpm - 7000rpm. Its difficult to do much better thna that on a high revving enginer. Circaintly you cant make significantly MORE torque at lower revs without compromising higher rev torque.



With a turbo you use boost at lower revs to boost torque up which is what they do with those engine to make them feel fastere i ngear.



I have found the opposite to you that turbos canmake the car feel docile (obviosly not the massively boosted one that kick in at 4k rpms), espeially the last 1500 rpms when the boost rolls off: this is where the GT86 can keep going.



FA20 torque curve:





Golf GTI Torque Curve:





See how the torque rolls off. But it makes the car more pocky at low revs...
Edited by: GT86Owner
 
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