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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Morning all
The title of this thread is a comment i've just read by the editor in the latest edition of Evo magazine (170) directed to Subaru and Toyota regarding the BRZ & GT86. The commentfollows the magazine being the first people to get unrestricted access to a BRZ without the manufacturer restricting what they can do with it.

They spent 4 days with the first BRZ in the UK driving it from the south of France to Wales and then test it on UK roads againstaMX5 Sport Tech;Megane 265 Trophyand Nissan 370Z. One interesting fact is that the BRZ/GT86 is narrower and shorter than a Cayman which for the first time tells me how nice and compact they're going to look.


I won't completely spoil the read for you but as a handling car they really rate it and say you can feel the sportiness and effort that has been put into the carbut, and it's a big but, they sayit simply hasn't got enough torque and power in everyday use and is crying out for an STi or fast Toyota version. They add that this isn't because they're road testers and just want POWER but that the car isslow under 5000rpm and you spend time waiting for it to hit 5000rpm for the action to start. The also add that the tail out actionthat has been promised from track reviewsis virtually impossible to safely provoke on UK roads.

Having now driven and tested the car theygive it 3.5 starsout of 5. The MX5 got 4.5.

I recommendreading the magazine as it's a really unbiased view on the car's we all crave.

Edited by: en8wall
 

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en8wall said:
 but, and it's a big but, they say it simply hasn't got enough torque and power in everyday use and is crying out for an STi or fast Toyota version.  They add that this isn't because they're road testers and just want POWER but that the car is slow under 5000rpm and you spend time waiting for it to hit 5000rpm for the action to start. 
That's very interesting, and disappointing unfortunately. The Honda V tec engines are like that - either very ordinary or going hell for leather at screaming revs.; that's good fun if you're in the mood but not relaxing if you just want a rapid but non white-knuckle drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
sherlocksdad said:
en8wall said:
but, and it's a big but, they sayit simply hasn't got enough torque and power in everyday use and is crying out for an STi or fast Toyota version. They add that this isn't because they're road testers and just want POWER but that the car isslow under 5000rpm and you spend time waiting for it to hit 5000rpm for the action to start.
That's very interesting, and disappointing unfortunately. The Honda V tec engines are like that - either very ordinary or going hell for leather at screaming revs.; that's good fun if you're in the mood but not relaxing if you just want a rapid but non white-knuckle drive.
Sounds like a turbo or supercharger could be in order? I still think the car is going to look the business. If more proper road tests (i.e. not under manufacturers control) find the same issue with power then it'll put pressure on Toyota/Subaru to bring out more powerful versions.

A similar thing has happened with the Hyundai Veloster when it was launched in NA specand a turbo version has been pushed through.
 

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I assume you have the Evo on subscription and so get it before it's in the shops - you don't happen to know when it will be distributed to the retailers do you, please?
Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi, yes, got evo on subscription, 3 issues for a £1.
I dont know when it comes out but the pic on the front is of the rear view of a Zonda.
The magazine has loads of pages on the brz, well worth a read.
 

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All high revving engines need to be reved hard to unlock the power potential. THis simply isn't that car for you if your looking for a "relaxing drive". Its a sports car and has oversteer, so you will never be able to drive rappidly and be relaxed. Maybe something like an A5 would be a better option.

There have been so many positive reviews of this car, I think they are doing it intertonally to be a bit different. After all they are trying to sell magazines....
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
GT86Owner said:
All high revving engines need to be reved hard to unlock the power potential. THis simply isn't that car for you if your looking for a "relaxing drive". Its a sports car and has oversteer, so you will never be able to drive rappidly and be relaxed. Maybe something like an A5 would be a better option.

There have been so many positive reviews of this car, I think they are doing it intertonally to be a bit different. After all they are trying to sell magazines....

GT86 owner
That's just the thing, this (GT86/BRZ)is the car for me with its looks and auto gearbox.Got a Hyundai Coupe at present and am after something similar looking but with betterhandling and speed, which wont be hard believe me! I've test drivenMerc C250 coupe and TT/A5 S line auto's and although fast they all left me numb with handling and in the TT's case all too common on the roads.

The reason for the thread is the Evo article is the firstone I'd readthat had complete access to the car (for 4 days) rather than being at a track or a manufacturers event. The proof will be once we can see and drive the cars and make our own views. Hopefully more real world road tests will come through the nearer we get to launch.

What colour spec have you ordered?
 

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en8wall,

I too have tried the A5 s line couple! Numb is the perfect word to describe the feeling you get. My wife has an A4 200BHP Quattro... and guess what, numb. She could not believe I found a suzuki swift sport/Renaltsport Twingo/mini Copper s more fun to drive!

Evo complained abotu the engines, but those high revving engines are a bit like marmite. You have to remember though that "only 151 lbft" of torque is at the crank not the road. Because of the high revving nature, the gear ratios are bigger such that that actual force on the road surface is as big as a car with 25% more torque and a red line of 6k rpm. It like being about to stay in a lower gear on your bike but being able to peddal 25% faster. THe only down side is you need to spin up the engine to get that power.

CAR magazine did complain about the interior on the BRZ, but then Autocar drove the BRZ in the same place and said the materials are great! lol

Anyone who says a FWD 260BHP Renault family car is as good as a proper RWD couple with low Centre gravity has no credibility to me.

I have order a Dark Red with Nav and Leather with Red Alcantera.

Im proper excited to drive mine. I actually dont want to drive it before I pick mine up!

I've got a track day booked in June to get some practice driving some RWD cars befroe I get mine :)
 

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GT86Owner said:
All high revving engines need to be reved hard to unlock the power potential. THis simply isn't that car for you if your looking for a "relaxing drive". Its a sports car and has oversteer, so you will never be able to drive rappidly and be relaxed. Maybe something like an A5 would be a better option.
You're absolutely right of course;it's a matter of degree, and we won't know how it suits us until we try one for ourselves.
I had a Honda S2000 which was a great car in it's way but not for the motorway. I'd be looking for more of an 'allrounder' than the Honda so I'll just have to wait to see if the Toyobaru fits my personal bill!

Love the spec of your car to be - that'd be my choice too.
 

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I've had a high revving car and found it does need to be driven differently and can feel quite slow if you change at normal revs. If you wanted fun though you just rev it hard and keep the revs up high when changing gear and it made for rapid driving. It can be difficult on some roads though as you reach some silly speeds quite quickly
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Love the spec. I'm thinking red or silver with leather & black alcantara.
I just want a car that I can feel excited about driving, looking at and it not being over common like some Audi's &BMW,s. I don't likethe image pervaide byGerman coupe style cars. The GT86/BRZ looks like it's going to be lovely and compact looking!!

I agree about the twingo/cooper reasoning. Years ago my wife used to have a 1.1 Saxo which obviously wasn't quick but was a hoot through corners with lift off oversteer.
My brother has a 240bhp A4 3.0TDi Quattro S line Special Edition which again is silly quick in a straight line but just on rails through a corner with no feel.

Wouldn't touchthe Renault with a barge pole, bit too "baseball cap brigade" for me.
 

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Yeah I imagine at 75MPH in the S2000 is revving quite hard (although not as a % of full scle 9k RPM) and could be a bit loud.

I read that the air intake system on this car is designed to start growling at around 4k5 RPM and that when it starts to get noisy. The way the noise kicks in is quite evident in Chris Harris Video Review. So here hoping it will be ok at 3k RPM for the motorways.

I wasnt sure if I wanted White to begin with. My current car is Red, but I cant help loving red cars!

To begin with I was liknig the orange, but I went off it pretty quickly. Although I think thsi car looks great in any colour!
 

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GT86Owner said:
Yeah I imagine at 75MPH in the S2000 is revving quite hard (although not as a % of full scle 9k RPM) and could be a bit loud.

I read that the air intake system on this car is designed to start growling at around 4k5 RPM and that when it starts to get noisy. The way the noise kicks in is quite evident in Chris Harris Video Review. So here hoping it will be ok at 3k RPM for the motorways.

The WhatCar? review suggested it was a little loud on the motorway:
http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/what-car-review_topic54.html


Edited by: Dan
 

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Yes I would imagine they are comparing it to a TT/Scirocco/GTI.

I will be appy if its quiter that my 08 Suzuki Swift. GOnig by the Road Noise SPec of the US, SCion FRS it 73dB which is similar to my Swift. However some of the that noise might be a pleasing enginer growl ;) ... here's hoping
 

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GT86Owner said:
en8wall,

I too have tried the A5 s line couple! Numb is the perfect word to describe the feeling you get. My wife has an A4 200BHP Quattro... and guess what, numb. She could not believe I found a suzuki swift sport/Renaltsport Twingo/mini Copper s more fun to drive!

Evo complained abotu the engines, but those high revving engines are a bit like marmite. You have to remember though that "only 151 lbft" of torque is at the crank not the road. Because of the high revving nature, the gear ratios are bigger such that that actual force on the road surface is as big as a car with 25% more torque and a red line of 6k rpm. It like being about to stay in a lower gear on your bike but being able to peddal 25% faster. THe only down side is you need to spin up the engine to get that power.

CAR magazine did complain about the interior on the BRZ, but then Autocar drove the BRZ in the same place and said the materials are great! lol

Anyone who says a FWD 260BHP Renault family car is as good as a proper RWD couple with low Centre gravity has no credibility to me.

I have order a Dark Red with Nav and Leather with Red Alcantera.

Im proper excited to drive mine. I actually dont want to drive it before I pick mine up!

I've got a track day booked in June to get some practice driving some RWD cars befroe I get mine :)
I sold my RS250 recently and have a GT86 on order. I rate the RS250 (or now RS265) really highly, but know the GT86 is a totally different car. So once I get behind the wheel of it, I can't wait to see just how different it is.
 

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As soon as I read that they didn't think it had enough power/torque I lost interest in their opinions. The whole point of the car is that it's a slap in the face of the power race going on with most cars and instead favours having a brilliant chassis for FUN not outright speed. It sounds like the power characteristics are almost identical to the RX-8 and personally I think that's great, revving the nuts off a car makes it so much more exciting. Low-end torque/power is for lazy motorway cruisers and diesels, sports cars are about screaming revs. It's nice that it's NA as well in a sea of FI cars.

At the end of the day, fixing a rubbish heavy chassis with aftermarket parts is hard and often futile whereas adding more power is easyso if it's not quite fast enough for your taste that's pretty easy to change and it's already got a brilliant chassis to handle it. The Subaru videos about the chassis design are seriously impressive: http://youtu.be/cQ0sDiL87eE


I get the feeling it would be a great car that could develop with your skill as a driver; add coil-overs, wider/grippier tyres and some extra power and the car would be able to keep up with your skill. I'm imagining that if I get one it's going to stay with me for a long time and with a slow trickle of modifications I'll never get bored of it.
 

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Its not that slow.

IT will do a quarter mile in less than 15secs which is quicker than a golf GTI or a TT with the 2.0T engine.

It has a slow 0-62 becasue:

1. Toyota are being conserative (In geneva they quoted 0-100KMh as 6.9Secs)
2. Its hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear at 59MPH

Check out the video of 0-124MPH in this tread:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6096&highlight=60+100MPH

e36 M3 0-100:

0-60: 5.7

60-100: 9.2

0-100: 14.9



BRZ 0-100:

0-60 (97 kmh): 7.3

60-100 (161 kmh): 9.5

0-100 (161 kmh): 16.8

so it 0.3 seconds slow than an e36M3 from 60MPH - 100MPH
 

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I'm not saying it's slow, but it's also not blindingly fast. Though there's no point in having a blindingly fast car on the road other than to be lazy; the fun bit of driving is going round corners fast, something you don't need much power to do within the speed limits (or even without the speed limits). The only issue with low power is thepossibilitythat someone in their exec-mobile will overtake you, chances are they won't be getting as much fun out of their drive though.
 
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