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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone

My son is a new owner of a GT 86 and is a bit disappointed at the moment . He’s been on about one since he first learned to drive but initially he had a Skoda Fabia. Recently a change in his circumstances ( he got a job after the lock down) enabled him to buy a GT 86.

Initially I said no to any he found from
Private Sellers . I said he had to do it properly and get it from a Toyota Dealer. We found one put a pay pal deposit on it but the garage sold it on us after confirming it was reserved. It put us off the dealer but an explanation was given and people make mistakes. They had an almost identical car come available and we arranged to see that one . My son had a nervous test drive , Found the gears odd but the Car Salesperson explained they were gearboxes that were different to what he’d been used to ‘ clunky , difficult’ were words used. I joined in the conversation as I once had a Celica and thought it sounded similar .

My lad said ‘I do’ and he married a white GT 86 . Signing up the finance the difficult to get used to gears were mentioned and on collection day they were talked about . There was a heap of misunderstanding and errors , but the young sales person seemed to be doing his best . My lad was over the moon . The first few days he took his mum around the block including the motorway , his cousins , his pals . No crazy driving . He was respectful of the car . He complained to me that the gears were misreading and sometimes he could not find a gear. I quoted the sales man. and told him he said it was difficult and clunky he’d have to get used to it over the first 8 days my son mentioned problems he had with the gears and on Sunday at 3 am in the morning it broke down at the end of a 16 mile motor run in 6th doing 70 to 85. No drive to the gears . Toyota recovery called , he could not take back to the toyota dealer we bought it from , he took it to the nearest . They advised us to phone where we’d got it as ‘ they might want to help’ . Everyone was saying it was the clutch . I started to realise the fault was there all along . I rang the dealer and spoke to the sales person who had mentioned the difficult clunky gears and I wasn’t worried because this was Toyota , service was going to good. My son looked pale and fed up . I thought a phone call will sort this. WRONG . The sales person denied he ever said the gears were difficult . Blew my mind as I was sure he was going to say , no wonder finding the gear was hard. He didn’t . The car was at the wrong garage , I was told we had to get it to the dealers . But Toyota pick up in the guise of AA said they had to go to the nearest garage . long story short the dealer spoke to recovery and got the car to them today . I was promised a call and got one or two . I sent a lot of emails highlighting the gearbox issue and is being told it was normal . Lots of mails .As the day got worse as it seemed i’d spent 3 days arguing the facts . My son has done between 200 and 250 miles and their verdict is his driven it with his foot on the clutch depressed . Riding the clutch . That nonsense - he’s a good driver . He even uses his hand brake everytime he is stationary . He was to respectful of his new car over the moon but so upset when the issue turned into arguments .

The garage say they have a video to prove the clutch went from being perfect when checked to completely wrecked in 200 to 250 miles by a driver that didn’t do anything that would course such damage . My son wanted to give the car back . The head of service said he wasn’t sure but he thought the car had to be repaired at our cost to return it . We had a discussion he seemed a nice enough chap but at the end of the day a firms man .

We did not reach a resolution abd my son is borrowing my car. I’m disabled and struggle in certain cars now a days . mine is a big 4x4 that I can step into. I need my car . This has coursed total chaos for the family and no courtesy car offered . But when we were buying it the dealership told us all the benefits courtesy car , warranty . The clutch is a consumable .

There’s more , lots more but im waiting for the head of service to call me tomorrow. So far no goodwill or benefit dealing with a dealership . Im shocked my own experience of Toyota and dealers had been excellent up to this point .

Has any one else experienced gear selection problems in GT 86!. I figured if anyone knows it would be you guys. Im suspicious because we were told the gears were difficult and I stuck to what the sales person said. Now they say the clutch has been misused and that everything was ok at the checks . That not accurate as when we got home the tyre pressure warning was on . We found each tyre low on air . One quite a lot low. We just put air in them and they stayed up. But the tyre pressure didn’t make the checks . So do I believe the clutch was already failing . The dealer says not.

Any help appreciated . I am going to have to pay to get the car fixed . I have asked for the damaged parts back . Is there anyone that could evaluate the clutch, My son has not ridden the clutch .The car tyres are the same depth as when he bought it. It’s been driven like it was a treasure . Much more careful than he drove his Fabia 20,000 miles on that no clutch failures . If he did ride the clutch why did the fabia not fail. If the failure is his driving fault?

So anyone suggest what I should do next the car is 10 days in our ownership today

any problem with clutches doing what ours has done . The dealership say they’ve never had a gt86 needing a clutch . They say they have never had one problem ever ( last 5 to 6 years) .
Thanks

Steve ( Freddy’s Dad ) i’m sure Freddy will be along to post as he wants to fit some carbon and stuff . He’d like it to look sexier.

Fine looking vehicle , but I think we chose the wrong dealer.
 

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Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time with Toyota and your car, I'm on my phone and can't go in to so much detail right now and there's a few other questions which might need answering to help figure out the best solutions.

How old is the car and how many miles has it done? If its a pre-14 plate it might have had a recall recently which would have had the whole engine out which might have had a clutch replacement. If it wasn't put back together properly there's a good chance its a part failure from the techs working on the car.

Toyota sales people lie. Simple as. The bait and switch is common, I've been told many times there's a perfect unmissable deal or some exclusive to try and sell a car, even had a sales person say to me over the phone they had a blue Aero edition on their forecourt for me to test drive which was never released in the UK in an effort to get me in to the showroom.

The gearbox is a well known issue, the sales staff call it a "characteristic" but what that really means is they need fine adjustment which the techs are not capable of resolving. Mine from new was completely undriveable, nothing like the test drives I had where it was impossible once beyond 2nd to get the car back to 2nd or first until the gearbox was fully warmed up. In the end to avoid rejecting the car as they didn't know how to do that after so long and Toyota were not prepared to replace the gearbox they negotiated with the dealer to swap my gearbox with a proper working one from another car on their forecourt. In the 7 years that have followed I have had no issues with the replacement gearbox compared to the daily hell I had with it before.

Some good news though, you have the car on finance and I'd also look into what protection you might have with PayPal and the deposit. The dealer didn't honour the original deal and traded you for a lemon, so the deposit situation might be in your favour where you could potentially get PayPal involved. Also depending on what type of finance you've taken out, they jointly own the car and are jointly reliable to make sure what they have financed is in suitable condition. To them having finance on a lemon is not acceptable so they could also put pressure on the dealer for a suitable solution or even reject the car outright, claiming back the payment to the dealer if it isn't satisfactory. I used Toyota finance with mine and they were reluctant to help at first but dealers are fully aware having finance breathing down their necks to get things fixed adds additional pressure.

Which area are you based? Some dealers are slightly better than others and I understand not naming the actual dealer. Might be worth if you have some time getting your son to test drive cars at other dealers to test the gearboxes and see how they compare to the one he had.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time with Toyota and your car, I'm on my phone and can't go in to so much detail right now and there's a few other questions which might need answering to help figure out the best solutions.

How old is the car and how many miles has it done? If its a pre-14 plate it might have had a recall recently which would have had the whole engine out which might have had a clutch replacement. If it wasn't put back together properly there's a good chance its a part failure from the techs working on the car.

Toyota sales people lie. Simple as. The bait and switch is common, I've been told many times there's a perfect unmissable deal or some exclusive to try and sell a car, even had a sales person say to me over the phone they had a blue Aero edition on their forecourt for me to test drive which was never released in the UK in an effort to get me in to the showroom.

The gearbox is a well known issue, the sales staff call it a "characteristic" but what that really means is they need fine adjustment which the techs are not capable of resolving. Mine from new was completely undriveable, nothing like the test drives I had where it was impossible once beyond 2nd to get the car back to 2nd or first until the gearbox was fully warmed up. In the end to avoid rejecting the car as they didn't know how to do that after so long and Toyota were not prepared to replace the gearbox they negotiated with the dealer to swap my gearbox with a proper working one from another car on their forecourt. In the 7 years that have followed I have had no issues with the replacement gearbox compared to the daily hell I had with it before.

Some good news though, you have the car on finance and I'd also look into what protection you might have with PayPal and the deposit. The dealer didn't honour the original deal and traded you for a lemon, so the deposit situation might be in your favour where you could potentially get PayPal involved. Also depending on what type of finance you've taken out, they jointly own the car and are jointly reliable to make sure what they have financed is in suitable condition. To them having finance on a lemon is not acceptable so they could also put pressure on the dealer for a suitable solution or even reject the car outright, claiming back the payment to the dealer if it isn't satisfactory. I used Toyota finance with mine and they were reluctant to help at first but dealers are fully aware having finance breathing down their necks to get things fixed adds additional pressure.

Which area are you based? Some dealers are slightly better than others and I understand not naming the actual dealer. Might be worth if you have some time getting your son to test drive cars at other dealers to test the gearboxes and see how they compare to the one he had.
Thank you for your message , it’s kind of you to reply . The car is 17 plate with service history . It’s done 32,000 miles . Low mileage although an App tried it was 6,000 more than average Still at 32,000 from a dealer I didn’t expect my son to have any problems . I’d like to mention he’s financed it entirely himself . He’s a rough pandemic , but has found a new job and suddenly he was capable of getting a car he wanted. I admit as parents we bought him his Skoda Fabia and that was so well looked after but he wanted to put bits and pieces on it to give it a look . I’d advise wait till you get your next car . He took me at my word and waited . He part ex’d the Skoda , paid some cash and finance for the remainder . I pursued the pay pal deposit. They refunded that as I requested that might be easier for them . But I think the way it works is they take £99 on pay pal and when you buy a car they refund if. It’s like a hold on the car to show how serious you are . They even say if you don’t have the car as it’s not suitable or you see it a change your mind they’ll give back the viewing fee. The only time they’d keep it is if you didn’t show for over 48 hours unless arranged . We’d had the deposit on 22 hours when they told us they sold it. At the time it was still on their website as reserved . I wanted to go elsewhere but they said they had this other car exactly the same and I didn’t want to lose the £99 by not viewing it. They said the Pay Pal could still be refunded if we didn’t like the car . We were met by a young salesperson who explained the mistake with the deposit was because a lady was off sick and he seemed genuinely upset the mistake had occurred . At that point I was warming to the idea of this other one . My son was yeah that’s the one and I advised to actually look at it . He was totally trusting . I pointed out a scrape on the wheel and the salesperson said that could be repaired before delivery / collection. It turned out it couldn’t be as it was a repair already . But they did polish it off a little and it didn’t look as bad. I couldn’t fault the look of the car . It appeared to be in excellent condition. My som asked the sales person if he would drive it for the first part of the test drive and the sales person obliged . My son said the first time he mentioned the gear box as being difficult was on the test drive . He spoke some more about it being something you grow into. Learn with use. On the day we collected the car there was stress as the garage didn’t do Saturday or Sunday handovers. It meant if it wasn’t there on the Friday as promised it would be another week to another Friday before my lad could pick it up. At this point it was his , luckily after much stressing we collected on Friday 23rd

I mention how many times the sales person said about the clunky box because when it turned bad and I called him to say the car was at another broken down , I told him about. my sons complaints the gears were showing miss-selected and we’d been blaming it on the difficult stick shift and box and the sales person said he never said anything about the gears . Which is untrue .Up to this point I really believed the sales person would back up the gears were difficult and that he’d told us me that . But he denied the 4 conversations .

Then when the car was recovered from one toyota dealer and taken to the garage we’d bought it from. I thought they’ll figure out it had a fault when we bought it. I started really putting some pressure on to get answers and the usual questions asked . I could have said by the wall of silence and no one picking up the phone I already knew they were going to claim . It felt set up. Yet the person I spoke to seemed to really believe the clutch damage ws user induced . That fell on my son who has driven it well , not ridden the. clutch . for around 200 / 250 miles. They are saying the car checked at it pre sale check and this huge amount of heat damage was down to my son riding ba the clutch . I know he hasn’t . My own theory is the sales person was told to tell us the gear box was difficult . It was like slotted in as part of the spiel . It worked on me when my son tried to complain the gears were miss selecting I told him what the sales person said and that he’d get used to it. Of course it was working up to a complete failure . If it had been thrashed and clutch mistreated I’d understand , but he hasn’t done that . A driver of some 20,000 miles with no issues in his little fabia . The previous owner may have ridden on the clutch .
thanks again and for the
To get the car out of dock i’m going to have pay for the clutch I asked to return the car and to the garage / service said it’s unlikely they would take it back unless the the clutch was fixed .
 

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I wouldnt be paying a penny. Unless that gearbox has been out before sale they will not know the state of the clutch, get in contact with the finance company and tell them you will be cancling payments because the car is not fit for purpose.
 

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The seller’s duty to you
When you buy goods, whether in store or online, the seller must comply with minimum statutory obligations towards you. These include selling goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. If you have been shown a sample when discussing the sale, the goods must within reason match that sample.
What if the seller provided you with information or made representations to you and you relied on these when you chose to go ahead with your purchase? The law says any such representations any information are implied terms in the contract and the seller is bound by them
 

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Really sorry to hear about your situation. Just a few pointers other than the above.

The car has a characteristic that the gearbox is Notchy when cold especially in the initial gears ( first and second). Sometimes changing from 3 to 2 when cold is also hard. But other than that or when the gearbox is warm, it is perfect.

Clutches are not a known issue on this platform. Having said that, wear in about 32K miles is definitely short service life and the possible situation was that it was a town/city car and the previous owner did a lot of stop-start driving or even rode the clutch on occasions. It could've been on a Santa Pod day when they were trying to get the best 0-60 times or quarter mile drag races and dumped the clutch many times over. Lots of possibilities but the conclusion of all that is the clutch was faulty at time of sale, problem had developed/was developing and the dealer is liable.

In terms of costs, an aftermarket Stage 1 Exedy clutch including supply and install is about £750. OEM is also made by Exedy. You could write to Toyota HQ and tell them about this and ask for a full refund/reject the car.
 

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I'm really sorry to hear about this situation but sadly, while some dealerships are decent, honest people who care about customers. Some are just d***s :(

Other folk have done a excellent job with their advice 😀 I can only thing to add the following...

Next Steps
Speak to Toyota GB and ask them to open a case on their system (I believe it's called "Compass"). Be sure to not only log a complaint about the car (because it's under warranty) but also the dealership itself!

Once you have a case number from Toyota GB... Go to the dealership in person and demand to speak to the "dealer principle" in person. Do not take no for an answer! They can ignore phone calls and emails, they can not ignore you in the flesh.
Give them the case number from Toyota GB and explain that you want to reject*** the car, as it's not fit for purpose or as described. Your sales agreement will have a clause that covers this but as it's been mentioned, you are covered by consumer law.

***You don't have to actually want to give up the car. It's just a case of playing them at their own game.
If you request "X", they will always say no (because they don't want to loose the fight) and try will try compromise with "Y". In this case, "Y" being them fixing the car for free 🤞

If they refuse... request a copy of any relevant documentation is promptly sent to Toyota GB. Also request a hard copy so you can pass it on to "The Financial Ombudsman" and "Trading Standards".
The Financial Ombudsman is a last resort and can take time but they are there to help 👍

The Actual Fault
As it's been mentioned, the clutch it's not a common fail point. It seems a bit off they know what the issue is so quickly? Although I might have missed that bit, there is a lot of text to get though lol.

Sales People
Some sales people are decent folk. Others will tell you anything to make a sale i.e blue edition aero? 🤦
Just because they told you the gearbox can be a bit difficult doesn't mean they actually know what means or how much of an issue it actually is.

Speak To Source
Following on from above... When I had questions about my gearbox, the dealership I purchased my car from where decent enough to send me out with one of there mechanics for a 30 minute drive and chat about the car. He was super helpful and knowledgable and to be honest, it was just like talking to a local mechanic I'd know for years.
To him, it didn't make any difference if their was an issue or not. He just enjoyed working on cars. A lot more neutral than a sales person trying to keep a hold of their commission!

Positive+
It's a shame that a young lad like Freddy (who has a good taste in cars), isn't having the experience he's been dreaming off.
I really hope your experience with this dodgy dealership doesn't put him off the car and he gets to enjoy it soon 👍 There are club meets from time to time and a few of us take our cars on track a fair bit as well. I'm sure there will be an event near you guys soon :)
Also, fair play to you (Steve) for being proactive and supporting Freddy, especially given your health concerns 👍

Out of interest, what got him dreaming of an 86 in the first place? I always though the twins were a bit under the radar but it seems to have cult status with folk in their early 20's?

On A Lighter Note
If needs be, it might be fun to organise a club meet at the dealership. I imagine a fleet of GT86's blocking their car park would motivate them a little 😂

Stay strong and fight the good fight :)
 

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I feel for you on this. I would keep it simple. Are you saying that the difficult gearchange was due to the clutch being on the way out - I have had that on another car, no clutch slip at all but starts being difficult to engage because clutch is dragging, and then failure. The salesperson admitted the gearchange issue at the time, so it existed before you bought it, end of (well, start of argument). I wouldn't get in to the gearbox foibles of this car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sorry to hear you're having such a bad time with Toyota and your car, I'm on my phone and can't go in to so much detail right now and there's a few other questions which might need answering to help figure out the best solutions.

How old is the car and how many miles has it done? If its a pre-14 plate it might have had a recall recently which would have had the whole engine out which might have had a clutch replacement. If it wasn't put back together properly there's a good chance its a part failure from the techs working on the car.

Toyota sales people lie. Simple as. The bait and switch is common, I've been told many times there's a perfect unmissable deal or some exclusive to try and sell a car, even had a sales person say to me over the phone they had a blue Aero edition on their forecourt for me to test drive which was never released in the UK in an effort to get me in to the showroom.

The gearbox is a well known issue, the sales staff call it a "characteristic" but what that really means is they need fine adjustment which the techs are not capable of resolving. Mine from new was completely undriveable, nothing like the test drives I had where it was impossible once beyond 2nd to get the car back to 2nd or first until the gearbox was fully warmed up. In the end to avoid rejecting the car as they didn't know how to do that after so long and Toyota were not prepared to replace the gearbox they negotiated with the dealer to swap my gearbox with a proper working one from another car on their forecourt. In the 7 years that have followed I have had no issues with the replacement gearbox compared to the daily hell I had with it before.

Some good news though, you have the car on finance and I'd also look into what protection you might have with PayPal and the deposit. The dealer didn't honour the original deal and traded you for a lemon, so the deposit situation might be in your favour where you could potentially get PayPal involved. Also depending on what type of finance you've taken out, they jointly own the car and are jointly reliable to make sure what they have financed is in suitable condition. To them having finance on a lemon is not acceptable so they could also put pressure on the dealer for a suitable solution or even reject the car outright, claiming back the payment to the dealer if it isn't satisfactory. I used Toyota finance with mine and they were reluctant to help at first but dealers are fully aware having finance breathing down their necks to get things fixed adds additional pressure.

Which area are you based? Some dealers are slightly better than others and I understand not naming the actual dealer. Might be worth if you have some time getting your son to test drive cars at other dealers to test the gearboxes and see how they compare to the one he had.
sorry for my late reply , i’ve been up to my neck discussing the car with RRG stockport and looking into what we can do. they say the only way we can have the car back is to pay for the parts which are going to cost £1300 plus+ I’m absolutely sure we’ve been done with this car and also that somebody their knew it had problems Before it was sold to us.
My reasoning being that join the buying process the salesperson mentioned at least four times the gearbox been difficult to use and how my son would have to get used to it. Within the first few days my son sent the selection wasn’t coming up on the display and he was finding difficulty with some of the gears to which I told him the sales man had about this and you just have to try to get used to the box. I wish I’d listen to him because the clutch plate bearing everything suffered a cataclysmic failure . Is there any way I could link the video they have centres which is supposed to show how it’s our fault but all it shows is all the damage that happened . The technician in the video describes it as ‘having lots of heat damages Caused by heat’ . I would not doubt thatThere is heat damage on the components. but how does they were caused by heat mean it was our fault?

I’ll see if I can get the link to the video they sent us my son has been driving since he was 17 he’s a good driver he doesn’t ride the clutch
I thought he drove the car really well. The dealer said that if we argued about the car my son could be off the road for months and I can’t have that as I’m disabled and need my car which my son is currently borrowing. The dealership tells me that I’ve never had any other problems with GT 86 . They’ve never had a complaint like this. They’ve never had a car returned like this. They sure as they are the best dealership for Toyota there is and any other Toyota dealer would be the same and I seriously doubt that I have had much better service from all the Toyota dealers
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I feel for you on this. I would keep it simple. Are you saying that the difficult gearchange was due to the clutch being on the way out - I have had that on another car, no clutch slip at all but starts being difficult to engage because clutch is dragging, and then failure. The salesperson admitted the gearchange issue at the time, so it existed before you bought it, end of (well, start of argument). I wouldn't get in to the gearbox foibles of this car.
Yes I’m certain the fault existed before we bought it. Because of the salesman pointing it out several times I can’t prove it but I feel he’s been told to point it out so that we didn’t come back complaining about the box. I had not thought much about his advice regarding gearbox until I reported the damage and the car being off the road on Sunday to the salesman that sold us the car and who on four occasions mentioned a gearbox he said he’d never mention the gearbox ever and they have that on a recorded phone call but he said he never mentioned it but he did hand on heart he did I witnessed it my wife witnessed it my son witnessed it. it’s difficult to try to remember everything but we may have been talking about it the day we were going through the finance in which case we may have even talked about it in front of all the staff there.
If that salesman did not think he done wrong why is he denying telling us that the box was a difficult gearbox we needed to get used to it et cetera
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I'm really sorry to hear about this situation but sadly, while some dealerships are decent, honest people who care about customers. Some are just d***s :(

Other folk have done a excellent job with their advice 😀 I can only thing to add the following...

Next Steps
Speak to Toyota GB and ask them to open a case on their system (I believe it's called "Compass"). Be sure to not only log a complaint about the car (because it's under warranty) but also the dealership itself!

Once you have a case number from Toyota GB... Go to the dealership in person and demand to speak to the "dealer principle" in person. Do not take no for an answer! They can ignore phone calls and emails, they can not ignore you in the flesh.
Give them the case number from Toyota GB and explain that you want to reject*** the car, as it's not fit for purpose or as described. Your sales agreement will have a clause that covers this but as it's been mentioned, you are covered by consumer law.

***You don't have to actually want to give up the car. It's just a case of playing them at their own game.
If you request "X", they will always say no (because they don't want to loose the fight) and try will try compromise with "Y". In this case, "Y" being them fixing the car for free 🤞

If they refuse... request a copy of any relevant documentation is promptly sent to Toyota GB. Also request a hard copy so you can pass it on to "The Financial Ombudsman" and "Trading Standards".
The Financial Ombudsman is a last resort and can take time but they are there to help 👍

The Actual Fault
As it's been mentioned, the clutch it's not a common fail point. It seems a bit off they know what the issue is so quickly? Although I might have missed that bit, there is a lot of text to get though lol.

Sales People
Some sales people are decent folk. Others will tell you anything to make a sale i.e blue edition aero? 🤦
Just because they told you the gearbox can be a bit difficult doesn't mean they actually know what means or how much of an issue it actually is.

Speak To Source
Following on from above... When I had questions about my gearbox, the dealership I purchased my car from where decent enough to send me out with one of there mechanics for a 30 minute drive and chat about the car. He was super helpful and knowledgable and to be honest, it was just like talking to a local mechanic I'd know for years.
To him, it didn't make any difference if their was an issue or not. He just enjoyed working on cars. A lot more neutral than a sales person trying to keep a hold of their commission!

Positive+
It's a shame that a young lad like Freddy (who has a good taste in cars), isn't having the experience he's been dreaming off.
I really hope your experience with this dodgy dealership doesn't put him off the car and he gets to enjoy it soon 👍 There are club meets from time to time and a few of us take our cars on track a fair bit as well. I'm sure there will be an event near you guys soon :)
Also, fair play to you (Steve) for being proactive and supporting Freddy, especially given your health concerns 👍

Out of interest, what got him dreaming of an 86 in the first place? I always though the twins were a bit under the radar but it seems to have cult status with folk in their early 20's?

On A Lighter Note
If needs be, it might be fun to organise a club meet at the dealership. I imagine a fleet of GT86's blocking their car park would motivate them a little 😂

Stay strong and fight the good fight :)
I like the idea of all the GT 86 is turning up at the garage. It made me giggle.

I am really sorry for the late reply we have been reading your posts I was reading with my son last night well I was so tired by last night it wasn’t much I could do. I suffer very poor health and I’ve told the Toyota dealership this I have difficulty with confrontation because I don’t make adrenaline so even if I stay calm if I I start to shake. It’s not nerves or me being scared it’s just my body hasn’t got the right hormones to deal with situations of stress. several times I’ve been reduced to having to take extra steroid after talking to the dealership.

I feel like my lad down because I made him go to a main dealer. When the car broke down fully I told him not to worry and he’ll be glad that he went to a main dealer as he had Toyota breakdown and they take him to the garage and they fix it under warranty so don’t worry I turned out they took it to a different garage to where we got it and that stuck it in some kind of limbo and then they got the car back to are are RRG where it took them a long time to come up with what they were going to say. expect they took longer debating it and how they were getting out of it then how it had happened.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I like the idea of all the GT 86 is turning up at the garage. It made me giggle.

I am really sorry for the late reply we have been reading your posts I was reading with my son last night well I was so tired by last night it wasn’t much I could do. I suffer very poor health and I’ve told the Toyota dealership this I have difficulty with confrontation because I don’t make adrenaline so even if I stay calm if I I start to shake. It’s not nerves or me being scared it’s just my body hasn’t got the right hormones to deal with situations of stress. several times I’ve been reduced to having to take extra steroid after talking to the dealership.

I feel like my lad down because I made him go to a main dealer. When the car broke down fully I told him not to worry and he’ll be glad that he went to a main dealer as he had Toyota breakdown and they take him to the garage and they fix it under warranty so don’t worry I turned out they took it to a different garage to where we got it and that stuck it in some kind of limbo and then they got the car back to are are RRG where it took them a long time to come up with what they were going to say. expect they took longer debating it and how they were getting out of it then how it had happened.
I meant to say it’s a 2017 plate registered in September the dealers at Stockport.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I wouldnt be paying a penny. Unless that gearbox has been out before sale they will not know the state of the clutch, get in contact with the finance company and tell them you will be cancling payments because the car is not fit for purpose.
They are making us pay for the repairs and then dispute it or otherwise it could take months .

My son would be without a car , using mine and i’m disabled so i’m in trouble with no car.

Keep in mind the sales person told us the gear box was difficult and clunky and would take some getting used to Further to that we now realise it was difficult because it was failing from the day we had collected it. Up to the Sunday when it failed despite a lot of problems buying it I was sure being Toyota we’d be ok and the sales man had pointed out the difficult box so they knew or would know it was failing from when we collected it . My son is a good driver and does not ride the clutch or do anything with the clutch that would cause a failure of this magnitude. He’s not been doing doughnuts or so wheelspinning or anything like that he’s just driven it around carefully as it was a new car to him in shock of shocks he told me he done 85 miles an hour in it and ask me that’s why it gone. It’s been a real mess and the dealer hasn’t been very helpful in fact the salesman denied He had mentioned the difficult gearbox. I could understand that if he had forgotten But he told is the same thing on at least four occasions on different days the last time was just a few minutes before we drove off and collecting the car he warned us to take it steady as it’s a new car get used to the gearbox which was difficult and clunky and watch the wet as it was raining like mad and we had a journey home in the rain in a car which my son hadn’t driven before turned out he drove it perfectly. he did have a couple of problems getting the gear into gear but seem to get over it and I put this down to the description the salesman have given us. it was a gearbox he would have to get used to.

YR67BYH

they sent us this video to prove that Freddy had destroyed the clutch in 250 miles of driving. any help with this from anybody. would be a great help. The dealership have me collecting the car tomorrow and paying huge bill to repair it although stated I disagree with it the man service Set the best way to do it is to pay for it get the car back on the road and then argue it afterwards. it seems a really unusual way of doing it. we did ask for the return of the car but they said they couldn’t take it back because it’s not in the same condition they sold it if we get it fixed it will be but that’s not true because it wasn’t working when we got it it wasn’t fit for purpose.

In the video you can have a giggle because it is showing a destroyed clutch system and the technician says the signs of heat everywhere and damage by heat and this has been caused by heat but he doesn’t say how it has been caused and how it failed in such a way with normal driving within 250 miles of driving
 

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By conceding now, it will make it harder for you to get your money back later. If you do continue down that route... When you pick up the car, make sure you also leave with a hard copy of everything plus the old parts.

Most importantly, have you spoken to Toyota GB directly yet? They have a lot of power over the dealerships and should be more than willing to help you as this looks very bad on RRG Stockports part.

The flywheel and clutch in particular looks absolutely shot! I'm honestly amazed it drove well enough for you to not pass on purchasing the car after the test drive???
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The seller’s duty to you
When you buy goods, whether in store or online, the seller must comply with minimum statutory obligations towards you. These include selling goods that are fit for purpose, as described and of satisfactory quality. If you have been shown a sample when discussing the sale, the goods must within reason match that sample.
What if the seller provided you with information or made representations to you and you relied on these when you chose to go ahead with your purchase? The law says any such representations any information are implied terms in the contract and the seller is bound by them
Yes correct and Ive quoted all that and informed trading standards . I realised I named the dealer in a post and I’m not sure if that’s ok?

I have valued the input. Unfortunately I don’t get much time to get back here. To post . I have been reading every piece of help / info.

Yesterday we went to the dealers and in order to get the car back we had to pay for the repairs . The service manager was trying to be helpful but he was limited in what he could do. He took my son out for a drive and when they came back my son said the car was much better . This hard to use , difficult and clunky gear box which was put to us as a trait and it prevented us complaining earlier because I thought it was normal as the sales person had said as much . I’m fairly sure the first time my son took a test drive the salesperson said we wouldn’t want you coming back when it normal. My we picked the car up on 21st and by 23 rx my son said he was finding the box difficult . It would not line up the display with what gear he selected . it would rev higher like it was slipping . Of course I took the sales persons words as fact and told my son he needed to get used to it. The sales person had pointed out this ‘trait’ 4 occasions 3 different days and when it failed I called the dealer , The Sales person answered the phone and I explained the car had broken down and the difficult gears and changes were worse because the car obviously had a clutch fault .
Without hesitation he said he had never mentioned the difficult gear box and how it was normal . It was those statements which prevented us realising it was a fault . I’m fairly sure if I could get in the car and I’d tried it I would have realised but I’m quite badly disabled and while I got in the passenger seat on the day of collection. it hurt and getting out took three people to lift me out. So I couldn’t check it myself. When my son with limited car experience he’s driven a Fabia 20,000 miles manually and my large Nissan which is an auto . I took the side of the sales man because of that

At that time of sale if the garage had fixed that fault before it got worse and eventually let go completely they would probably have had less damage.

Until yesterday with the way the fault was hidden by the sales remarks and the fact he denied 4 conversations 3 separate days I thought with other difficulties we’d experienced we’d got a dealer that ripped us off. It was everything I’d tried to avoid by making my lad go to a Toyota dealer . But yesterday talking to the sales manager , the salesman concerned is young and had been with them less than 2 weeks . He’d made a few mistakes and it he could have denied and is denying the conversations because he thought he was in trouble. I know we’ve been through hell with it , but I feel sorry for the young sales person if that’s the case as when we were dealing with him he was helpful and pleasant . I think when he drove my son in the GT 86 day of the test drive having missed a few gear changes he told Fred my son it took some getting used to . My lad tried it and when they got out of the car after the test drive they were talking about the difficult box and I joined in
Now did the sales man realise he’d got it wrong and it was faulty? Because if on the day I told him of the fault he said I thought that box had a problem . Would he be in trouble for not noticing , for accidentally misleading us.I’d prefer to think that’s what it was but at the end of the day the Dealer has dismissed what we’ve said . The repair cost almost £1400 and the dealer ship said the best thing to do was get the car back on the road as that would give us a stronger position to give it back or argue about the fault and get a refund. I wish I’d phoned the finance company first as they said it weakened my case that we’d paid but also said if it was documented then maybe it would still be ok and they might be able to help.

No matter how helpful the Service Dept manager had been , no matter how well they have put the car back together there’s no way we should have paid for something that was already faulty . It’s so obvious because my son says the gears are totally different now it’s fixed , He says they no longer jump out or skip or skip or display the wrong gear selected Wheb he drove up the road today his changes sounded good. Thinking back when I watched him on day 4 I thought he was struggling with the gears as I heard the revs go high as the gear was changed . It was very different to what it was like.

It’s been dreadful and not what I expected from a main dealer . For years I have always said the best service and cars I ever had have been Toyota . I was a loyal fan snd I strayed to Ford and then Nissan and I was coming back around to buying my ‘last’ car as if I got a new hybrid I think it would see me out. Ive had my Nissan 13 years . If I had my next car that long i’m going psst my life expectancy. But it was such a joy seeing the lad with the GT86 was fantastic . I would not have agreed that he could get one if he wasn’t sensible and part of me was excited as I’d love one or a Supra but physically I can’t use them . I’d be going for the Rav Sport 4.8 secs 0 to 60? ? and 100 miles to the gal . It sounds like Toyota have found how to use magic making the cars . My Nissan does 25 to the gal and a little better on long journeys . Kick it down accelerate and I swear you see the gauge drop!

Steve ( Freds Dad)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
By conceding now, it will make it harder for you to get your money back later. If you do continue down that route... When you pick up the car, make sure you also leave with a hard copy of everything plus the old parts.

Most importantly, have you spoken to Toyota GB directly yet? They have a lot of power over the dealerships and should be more than willing to help you as this looks very bad on RRG Stockports part.

The flywheel and clutch in particular looks absolutely shot! I'm honestly amazed it drove well enough for you to not pass on purchasing the car after the test drive???

My son was told the gears not going in and slipping were a trait of the gear box. He’s not experienced in many types and he believed the sales persons explanation. That was on the test drive . That’s why the sales person being honest and saying what he told us on 4 occasions because what he said mislead me . My son was questioning it within a few days when he struggled with the gears and I reminded how daft we’d look if we went back and they said you need to get used to the box. Now it’s fixed my lad says it’s different to his Fabia but it’s so much easier than it was.

I think you are right , If I’d have driven and was told that is a trait of the car It would have put me off. I’d like to think I’d have noticed the issue. But physically I can’t drive the car. The whole thing felt like we’d been done . Now im
not sure if it’s just the young salesman thinking he was in trouble for saying the box was OK , they were all like this on GT86 cars . When it failed it was so obvious the fault was present when we got the car . I didn’t realise how bad it was . i feel really bad about it because I actually re enforced it was just the way the cars were . The salesperson said . I didnt realise because I couldn’t drive it.

I agree Ive made our case weaker , the dealer said it would be stronger to get the car working and then argue it. Leaving them with the car they said my son could be months without the car he was paying for. What would have made it all less pressure would have been a courtesy car because Fred was borrowing my car and I was stuck at home . I have limited mobility , movement but I step into my car . Smaller cars I struggle with . I had faith in Toyota Dealers and this is totally unexpected treatment . 23 years ago when I had my Celica they were amazing . I had the Celica about 3 years when my mate and me gave her a good valet and we used a pressured washer on the wheels . with in a few days they had gone like crazy paving and looked terrible . I thought the pressure washer had killed them I was convinced I messed them up using a pressure washer. Ss look would have it , it was back with a manifold problem which they’d identified as warranty some months before and had to lend me an exhaust system while they got the part from Japan . So when I was back I asked the service guy could he look at my wheels and was there anyway I could have them restored . I was willing to pay as I though i’d done the damage with the pressure washer . It took him seconds to say do you have a full-size spare . I said I did and he said you need 5 new wheels then . I said can’t I have these repaired I can’t run to £1000 to £2000 on wheels and he said there’s no charge . What’s happened should not have happened . Talk about impressed with the honesty . They were great.

Problem

I have asked for the old parts back . I have a pal who’s able to check them. He’s done fault finding metallurgy in the aerospace industry . Ive told the Dealer I have hi. lined up

The narrator in the video I posted technician at the garage says ‘ there’s heat and damage and over this side there’s heat damage and the damage is caused by heat’ . You have to giggle as heat damage is caused by heat is the diagnosis . I’m hoping my pal can tell joe long a period the damage was done to the failure complete .

Problem , we left the garage a little more positive . I’d asked for the original parts as we are the owner of those and they agreed to give them back As we left the garage I said we never checked the parts were in the GT86 as normally such things would be boxed and returned with the car . 10 more minutes down the road I raised Fred on the car phone and he said he hadn’t seen the parts but he’d not looked in the boot. By now we were in a traffic jam on the m6 going to M56 . I said we should go back . But it was going to take ages to get back it was gridlocked . So I said they are probably in the boot . I’ll ring the dealership and ask . I got through to reception and they couldn’t find the service manager and so I left a message and asked for a call back . Ive learned they are not great on call backs and no one called me back . At home the old parts were not in the car . I know we should have checked. But it must be an oversight as they agreed to return them . They are our proof . The tyre treads were the same dept as the collection day checks . proof the car has not bee. thrashed around a track or been drifting or what ever. My son was drove the car 250 miles ‘nursing’ the clutch but not realising the car was faulty because of the sales persons explanation of why it was behaving badly.

So have they deliberately not returned the parts? I hope not . I got the feeling the service manager knew exactly what had happened and he even said if it was his lad he would be shouting . I’m hoping he goes to the principal and explains he’s sat in the repaired car with my son and the truth . He knows that car had faults , but it’s like he’s scared to say.
I asked him what he thought of his driving and he said it was OK . He’s got to get used to the biting point , the gesrs but he didn’t drive badly . My son said it was totally different to how it was and he was driving it like he had to to get the original clutch to bite. Once he realised it was more normal he was fine . Even hearing the car drive off theres none of the pauses and rev noises like there was . I was putting it down to Fred and the difficult box and basically the clutch was on its way out. I’m sure after meeting Freddy and my wife and I he realises we just want justice . The pressure abd confrontation was not good for me I have no adrenal glands and would have to take etc to keep upright as my energy doesn’t stand stress . I made the dealer aware of the hole we were in . Without my car I could not go anywhere . I had to cancel appointments . my wife had to walk to Frodsham .i explained I needed my car and really we should have had a courtesy car .
One day I was doing a favour for the local solicitors . Pricing some items for probate etc and that day Fred walked to work . 3 miles 5.30 Am . I told the dealer and the only answer was to get freds car fixed or buy or rent a car while we argued . The dealer did not show any compassion . I still felt to blame because I’d made him go to a dealer to avoid exactly what us now occurring . My son is out tonight i. my car . He does nt want to take his out late until he’s sure it’s reliable . It should be fine now .

I have bought the domain stockportoyota.com and we have notes and pictures , plus video we plan to upload to the net if necessary . I will be careful to state dates and facts only.

Face book , reviews etc . They are all ammunition but i’d have preferred the dealer to be like I had know Toyota in the past. The blog will at least offer an independent view of a purchase that went wrong .
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I wouldnt be paying a penny. Unless that gearbox has been out before sale they will not know the state of the clutch, get in contact with the finance company and tell them you will be cancling payments because the car is not fit for purpose.
I have got in contact with the Finance and they said I have weakened their position by paying , but they could still be able to help.

The dealer said it would make our position stronger as the car would be back on the road and we’d know how it drives and how it would be perfect , really checked over and then my son would have it back and at least have the car back as if we disputed it and didn’t pay it would take or could take months to sort . once again I think. I have cocked it up for my son

I didn’t get the original parts back read my other post . I’m thinking this is an oversight . But so far Ive let them know by calling them 10 minutes after leaving the dealer ship when we picked the car up after repair . the receptionist promised a call back. We’ve not had one yet . Ive sent 3 emails in asking about them as they were not returned with the car. No reply as yet

Steve freds dad
 

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I am very sorry to hear of the problems you have experienced but in my experience the dealers vary rather a lot. My first 86 purchase and after sales from one dealer left rather a lot to be desired although I know others that have had good experience with the same dealer. When I traded in and purchased another 86 from a different dealer I could not have been happier and they have gone above and beyond what one would have expected.
 
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