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Cars with keyless entry getting stolen

Printed From: Toyota GT 86 Owners Club
Category: General Message Area
Forum Name: General GT 86 / BRZ Discussion
Forum Description: Non-Technical Toyota GT 86 / BRZ - anything that doesn't fit in another forum
URL: http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14108
Printed Date: 24 Jun 2018 at 10:19am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Cars with keyless entry getting stolen
Posted By: Galaxian
Subject: Cars with keyless entry getting stolen
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 3:34pm
Car theft near me has gone through the roof recently, mainly luxury german cars but I've just seen cctv footage of thieves using a signal booster standing by a person's front door to get the signal off the key fob apparently. The thieves in this video were able to open the car and drive off without the keys! Shocked

So, can the same be done with our cars or does the thatcham immobilizer stop this? Any ideas?  I'm not too concerned cos it's mainly luxury cars but it's still a worryAngry


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Grey GT86, MT, Alcantara, SatNav, reversing sensors, HKS filter and uel manifold, avo overpipe , Berk HFC, Miltek res exhaust, Perrin intake, Fensport ECUTek tune



Replies:
Posted By: Steeps
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 3:38pm
Would have to be a very powerful signal booster because sometimes my car fails to pick up the key to start if it's in the wrong pocket.


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Cosworth Stage 1.3


Posted By: growlerkat
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 3:55pm
I keep both sets of keys in a tin - just in case!!


Posted By: Gavin_T
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 4:14pm
This was on BBC this morning just as I was leaving for work. Apparently keeping keys in the fridge is the top tip


Posted By: Gray
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 6:07pm
I am sure this came up on the forum ages ago when it was on TV and it does seem to be very common. Someone suggested these pouches https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (you get 3 for £9.99) and as long as you put the key in the rear slot not the front they work a treat. Cant even open the car with the pouch held to the car.


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Mature chap with a red GT86 - Never too old to have fun.


Posted By: amcluesent
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 6:08pm
Unless the GT86 is in the locked garage, I keep the keyfob in an RFID pouch and also when it's parked-up outside a bar/restaurant etc. The RFID pouches are available on Amazon

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http://bit.ly/2mx6PsH - My GT86


Posted By: Toybaru1
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 6:50pm
Originally posted by growlerkat growlerkat wrote:

I keep both sets of keys in a tin - just in case!!


Put mine in a tin that's lined with foil, heard this works. Walked up to the car with said tin with key inside, opened door and started the engine! So from that deduced it doesn't work!


Posted By: growlerkat
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 7:56pm
Oh dear,the fridge it is then! As long as I don't try to open the car with the semi-skimmed


Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:47pm
Hmm - not sure what the best answer is, but taking a cold key out of a fridge into a room temperature environment is going to cause condensation to form on the key fob, and over time that isn't going to do the electronics any good.


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Philip
2013 GT86 - Burnt Orange
2008 IS 250 SE-L - Caspian Sky
2012 E93 M3 - Jerez Black


Posted By: Gavin_T
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:51pm
End of the day if you are concerned an old fashioned steering wheel lock would be enough to put them off I would think.


Posted By: BRZ
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:57pm
The only foolproof answer is the mobile, rfid signal blocker pouch linked above by Gray. They work!


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 9:27pm
Just a regular biscuit tin works, I tested it. Even right next to the door the signal doesn't reach it.

But yea "keyless" systems were always a dumb idea. All someone has to do is boost the signal and you can open and start the car from as far away as you can make the signal go. The key and car are constantly looking for each other which is a huge vulnerability. With enough time you could probably hack and open the car without the key at all.

Keeping it in the fridge will kill the battery in the fob. Batteries hate cold.


Posted By: Mark E Mark
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 10:02pm
The pros of keyless entry are minimal, the downside huge. Crap system as this thread confirms.


Posted By: cts
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Gray Gray wrote:

Someone suggested these pouches https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (you get 3 for £9.99) and as long as you put the key in the rear slot not the front they work a treat. Cant even open the car with the pouch held to the car.

Yup, these work just great.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 8:55am
Google "Faraday cage".  Apparently a mesh with the mesh pitch of 1/2 the wavelength of the signal will block it.  This is also the reason why you don't get microwaved in the kitchen while heating a instant burger.

I wouldn't advise the fridge.  For the simple reason.... what runs down the back of you fridge and why?  To help you a bit, condensation will run down everything in the fridge, including / especially inside a closed key that has been in the warm humid air of your pocket previously.  It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.


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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: Mike
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:08am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

They do actually... they just insulation the hell out of the piping etc...


Posted By: Moves With Clouds
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:10am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

Hm, I don't know what design you have in mind there. In your car the airconditioning is a way to get the humidity out of the air in the car, especially in closed circuit mode. In a fridge the complication is you keep adding humidity and never take it out.
I know, I like car analogies :)


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Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:12am
From an IT security perspective using a signal booster is an interesting one.

Most ideas to make the keys more secure I am familiar with would involve challenge/response protocols using public/private keys.

The thing about those, used in things like SSL, TLS and HTTPS on the internet, is that they are designed to be relayed multiple times by internet routers before reaching each party. Effectively the signal booster is just a router, it does not try and tamper or even view the messages, which the protocol would detect as "Man-in-the-middle", it just sends them on unaltered.

Car:  "wheres my key? <secret code>"
Booster:  "WHERES MY KEY? <SECRET CODE>"
Key: "here I am, <correct secret response>"
Booster "HERE I AM <CORRECT SECRET RESPONSE>"
Car: "Oh hi there, unlock alarmed."

Even if the secret code is dynamic, including a random number, the key will still corrected decode and respond correctly.

The thing is, if the keys were actually made properly secure the value of the stolen car would not be great as it would be very difficult to clone a key later to resell the stolen car.  The car ring shop would still need to get the encryption keys from both the car and the key fob.


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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: church
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:15am
Isn't this issue taken a bit too far? I'm sure that if competent thieves were set on theft, car will be stolen anyway. If not by this then by other means. Just because of this go to great lengths of shielding signal and so on ..
paulca: you have missed some of overclocking/computer modding forums. You can even buy case with such units http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/l/51-ld-pc-v10-phase-change.html - preinstalled :), in addition to DIY moded projects.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

They do actually... they just insulation the hell out of the piping etc...

Do they?  They use water and oil cooling circuits, but these are passive cooling loops the same as you find in a car water circuit.  They start out at ambient temp, pass through the hot parts and end up ambient++ then the pass through a radiator (with a fan for when needed) and get cooled back to ambient.  They effectively move heat around with heat exchangers, there is no active component.

So unless your house is at 100% humidity and the temperature is at dew point, no condensation... and if it is you have condensation anyway.

A fridge differs in that the cooling circuit is 'active' in that the coolant used changes temperature BELOW ambient.  Expanding the refrigerant gas in the evaporator actively "pulls" heat from the environment dropping it significantly below ambient.  All it needs to do is drop it below dew point (usually around 6*C at sea level) and any saturated humidity will condense on the surface of the cooler.  Drop the surrounding air temperature below dew point and water will be begin to condense on every surface.



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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:24am
Originally posted by Moves With Clouds Moves With Clouds wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

Hm, I don't know what design you have in mind there. In your car the airconditioning is a way to get the humidity out of the air in the car, especially in closed circuit mode. In a fridge the complication is you keep adding humidity and never take it out.
I know, I like car analogies :)

Yes, but they do that specifically.  Asides there potentially being a drier (I don't know if ours has one), the evaporator of the air con cools well below dew point and water condenses on the fins.  It actually freezes on them.  Frequently the compressor shuts off and the evaporator warms, defrosting the ice which is then allowed to leak through a drain hole to the outside world.

Fridges have a drain at the bottom of the rear panel which (I think) takes condensation somewhere closer to the warm radiator on the back where it re-evaporates.

The difference is the temperature the fridge is targetting means that condenstation happens everywhere if humidity rises (when you open the door).  This is exactly what causes your freezer to bung up with ice.


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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:27am
Originally posted by church church wrote:


paulca: you have missed some of overclocking/computer modding forums. You can even buy case with such units http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/l/51-ld-pc-v10-phase-change.html - preinstalled :), in addition to DIY moded projects.

Seems you are right.  If that is actually a compressor/evaporator circuit cooler then it's a bit dumb.  If it manages to cool any component below circa 6*C it will suffer condensation.. which would be bad for any exposed electrical or raw metal surfaces.


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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: Gray
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:33am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

The thing is, if the keys were actually made properly secure the value of the stolen car would not be great as it would be very difficult to clone a key later to resell the stolen car.  The car ring shop would still need to get the encryption keys from both the car and the key fob.


Problem is that to comply with European regulations requiring independent mechanics and locksmiths, rather than just main dealerships, to be able to replace lost key fobs, many car makers include a feature that allows new fobs to be programmed from data held inside the car’s electronics.

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Mature chap with a red GT86 - Never too old to have fun.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:41am
Originally posted by Gray Gray wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

The thing is, if the keys were actually made properly secure the value of the stolen car would not be great as it would be very difficult to clone a key later to resell the stolen car.  The car ring shop would still need to get the encryption keys from both the car and the key fob.


Problem is that to comply with European regulations requiring independent mechanics and locksmiths, rather than just main dealerships, to be able to replace lost key fobs, many car makers include a feature that allows new fobs to be programmed from data held inside the car’s electronics.

Other posts on here suggest the GT86 needs a complete ECU replacement as the key codes are burnt into ROM.

This could of course be dealers being stealers though.



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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:43am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Originally posted by church church wrote:


paulca: you have missed some of overclocking/computer modding forums. You can even buy case with such units http://www.ldcooling.com/shop/l/51-ld-pc-v10-phase-change.html - preinstalled :), in addition to DIY moded projects.

Seems you are right.  If that is actually a compressor/evaporator circuit cooler then it's a bit dumb.  If it manages to cool any component below circa 6*C it will suffer condensation.. which would be bad for any exposed electrical or raw metal surfaces.

I watched this:
It seems they focus the cooling on the various components and then insulated everything else from said components.  A lot of hoops to jump through.  Personally when I was going down the overclocking route with several CPUs I could not get to a point where heat was an issue.  Usually they started failing computational tests long before that making the system lock up frequently.





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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: Mike
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:45am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Do they?  They use water and oil cooling circuits, but these are passive cooling loops the same as you find in a car water circuit....

Yep...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0B0Dli-1g  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0B0Dli-1g  ;

As for on topic... if they can't boost the signal and want the keys, they'll come inside for them anyway. If someone wants your car, chances are they'll get it one way or another...


Posted By: Moves With Clouds
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

As for on topic... if they can't boost the signal and want the keys, they'll come inside for them anyway. If someone wants your car, chances are they'll get it one way or another...

I think that is beside the point. The level of protection matters. It decreases the chances of theft.


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Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go


Posted By: Moves With Clouds
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:53am
It should be perfectly possible to make sure the 'man in the middle' attack cannot work with car/fob communication, while addressing the maintenance issues. If it doesn't then it's because manufacturers aren't motivated.


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Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go


Posted By: Gray
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Gray Gray wrote:

Problem is that to comply with European regulations requiring independent mechanics and locksmiths, rather than just main dealerships, to be able to replace lost key fobs, many car makers include a feature that allows new fobs to be programmed from data held inside the car’s electronics.
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Other posts on here suggest the GT86 needs a complete ECU replacement as the key codes are burnt into ROM.

This could of course be dealers being stealers though.


I think the ECU only needs replacing where a key has been stolen and the owner wants to ensure the old key cannot be used. Don't think there is any problem adding additional fobs using the original codes.


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Mature chap with a red GT86 - Never too old to have fun.


Posted By: Mike
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:12am
Yep, you should have been given something with a code on that'll let them make new fobs... if you want to stop the old fobs working it's a new ECU.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:23am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Do they?  They use water and oil cooling circuits, but these are passive cooling loops the same as you find in a car water circuit....

Yep...  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0B0Dli-1g  - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d0B0Dli-1g  ;

As for on topic... if they can't boost the signal and want the keys, they'll come inside for them anyway. If someone wants your car, chances are they'll get it one way or another...

Very interesting, very geeky, but how much money, how much electricity to get a ~13% gain?

On topic, If we are dealing with the 1% of them who are that professional and are that determined then you are correct, we don't really have much defence, except they will not be stealing our cars.  The other 99% are opportunists.  They look for particular opportunities they can exploit, the easier, the least inconspicuous and less chance of getting caught the better.  If they can try 100 cars in an hour and only one works, that's better than staking out a few houses, breaking in and getting away with the keys, uncaught, unfilmed, taking them ages.

Being in that 1% is probably a career and relatively rare.  The rest can buy/mod a signal booster from china for a handful of quid... or buy one at a dodgy market beside the "Pirate Kodi" stand and the "Chipped Sky Boxes" stall.  I'd like my car to have a defence against those people.


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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:35am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Yep, you should have been given something with a code on that'll let them make new fobs... if you want to stop the old fobs working it's a new ECU.

Ah.  Okay.

So then the process of a cloning a key is just finding/copying a replacement key and adding it as a new fob.

I expect most people will have left the documentation for the key code in the glove box.  Unless that number is really long it should be brute force-able anyway.




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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:41am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Originally posted by Gray Gray wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

The thing is, if the keys were actually made properly secure the value of the stolen car would not be great as it would be very difficult to clone a key later to resell the stolen car.  The car ring shop would still need to get the encryption keys from both the car and the key fob.


Problem is that to comply with European regulations requiring independent mechanics and locksmiths, rather than just main dealerships, to be able to replace lost key fobs, many car makers include a feature that allows new fobs to be programmed from data held inside the car’s electronics.

Other posts on here suggest the GT86 needs a complete ECU replacement as the key codes are burnt into ROM.

This could of course be dealers being stealers though.



Could be true, it does seem to be mainly European cars being stolen using these methods.

It might be that Japanese manufacturers follow different (and more sensible) regulations. For one the ODB2 port isn't reachable from the side window, that is another recent EU regulation. In some cars you can break the side window and start the car or create a new key with a laptop, without triggering the alarm.


Posted By: church
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:52am
BTW, i'd care more to decrease chances of theft in 2 cases: 1) if it have been some premium car (cost upwards from 40K 2) if it's one of most frequently stolen ones (like eg. RAV4 #1 by stolen numbers @LV). Ours are relatively rare, niche vehicles for limited niche of drivers, thus harder to resell and easier to be found, and it's cheap car at that. I just use whatever security means were built in during purchase time, and for rest is insurance. Higher chance for ours is to be totalled in crash on track then to be stolen, no? :)
With caring less keyless entry is for me feature of extra convenience, not extra scare thing that needs extra accessories to stop being keyless.


Posted By: gazza82
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 1:06pm
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

[QUOTE=Mike]I expect most people will have left the documentation for the key code in the glove box.  Unless that number is really long it should be brute force-able anyway


My small tag is well hidden and locked away.

As for boosting the fob, which I assume is constantly sending signals, keep them in a small tin (or microwave!) or an anti-RF-pouch and they can't be got at.



Posted By: BRZ
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by church church wrote:

Higher chance for ours is to be totalled in crash on track then to be stolen, no? :)

Don't widespread this idea of totalling Tongue otherwise our car's insurance will also skyrocket like the impreza/WRX STi, where too many have gone down a ditch or are found wrapped to a tree by the roadside...


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 4:59pm
Problem with the WRX/STIs is they attract the barryboys when they depreciate, they are what push the premiums up. They think the GT86 is slow, so they don't want it, which is how it needs to stay so that I can keep paying under £400 a year with £0 excess :P

Crashed on a track is fine, that's different insurance afaik :D


Posted By: church
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 6:56pm
Nasher: unless one tries criminal act of insurance fraud to fake place of accident, in many cases imho it's not insurance case at all, as track/race insurance is in most cases too expensive to be affordable by common folks :(


Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 7:00pm
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

Most ideas to make the keys more secure I am familiar with would involve challenge/response protocols using public/private keys.

Why would you use asymmetric encryption? Symmetric encryption would be much more appropriate in this case.

Originally posted by Nasher Nasher wrote:

It might be that Japanese manufacturers follow different (and more sensible) regulations. For one the ODB2 port isn't reachable from the side window, that is another recent EU regulation. In some cars you can break the side window and start the car or create a new key with a laptop, without triggering the alarm.

Isn't it actually a US requirement, which says that the OBD2 socket must be reachable from the driver's seat.

The issue with the side window was nothing to do with regulation - it was BMW (and possibly others, but my M3 was affected) installing an alarm system which did not cover the area between the windows and the OBD2 socket! (The fix was a software update which meant that you can no longer create a new key for the car unless you have an existing key).


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Philip
2013 GT86 - Burnt Orange
2008 IS 250 SE-L - Caspian Sky
2012 E93 M3 - Jerez Black


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 8:17pm
Originally posted by church church wrote:

Nasher: unless one tries criminal act of insurance fraud to fake place of accident, in many cases imho it's not insurance case at all, as track/race insurance is in most cases too expensive to be affordable by common folks :(

That trick won't work in a lot of places any more. If you have a crash right outside a track the insurers get highly suspicious. Especially near the Nurburgring, it's a good idea to let them know your going there even if you don't take the car on the track :P


Posted By: church
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 8:26pm
Not just won't work, but also shouldn't be tried. After all, it's really criminal act, and not that hard to be found out. Still fact is that track/race insurance too expensive, so in most cases one is on his own with risks of crash, or should give up this hobby if security is must have yet earnings won't allow it (as for most). 2K to insure for track day? That's a bit .. slightly .. more expensive then fuel burnt and tires worn.


Posted By: Galaxian
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 8:53pm
good discussion guys but my main point was does the thatcham immobiliser stop the type of theft discussed here?? anyone?

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Grey GT86, MT, Alcantara, SatNav, reversing sensors, HKS filter and uel manifold, avo overpipe , Berk HFC, Miltek res exhaust, Perrin intake, Fensport ECUTek tune


Posted By: spikyone
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:52pm
Originally posted by church church wrote:

Not just won't work, but also shouldn't be tried. After all, it's really criminal act, and not that hard to be found out. Still fact is that track/race insurance too expensive, so in most cases one is on his own with risks of crash, or should give up this hobby if security is must have yet earnings won't allow it (as for most). 2K to insure for track day? That's a bit .. slightly .. more expensive then fuel burnt and tires worn.



Veering off topic here but it was nothing like £2k to insure on track for me - I paid £170ish for £17.5k of cover at Castle Combe, which is probably the highest risk circuit in the UK.


Posted By: Philip
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 10:54pm
Originally posted by Galaxian Galaxian wrote:

good discussion guys but my main point was does the thatcham immobiliser stop the type of theft discussed here?? anyone?

Short answer - no, it does not protect against this type of attack.

The thief is just amplifying the signal from your key fob, so it looks to the car as if the key fob is present (rather than far away in your house), and so the car can be unlocked and started just the same as if the thief had your key fob in their hand..


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Philip
2013 GT86 - Burnt Orange
2008 IS 250 SE-L - Caspian Sky
2012 E93 M3 - Jerez Black


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 1:03am
What the people putting wireless on everything don't seem to understand is that the signal doesn't just go X meters from one point to another. It sends out radio signals in all directions for anyone to find. How far away you receive it depends only on how much you want to spend on receiver equipment.

That's why if you ever visit any secret/secure government buildings in the UK, anything wireless is banned. Also all the locks on cabinets and doors are only ever good ol' fashion physical keys or mechanical combination locks. Because any electronic/digital locking mechanisms are considered a vulnerability.


Posted By: Toybaru1
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 7:54am
There's always the option of getting the dealer to disable the smart locking so it only operates from the fob buttons. I did this when I purchased the car, downside is the smart start is also disabled so you have to touch the fob onto the chrome start button ring. Was a pain in the @rse so had it reinstated.


Posted By: Subota Boy
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 9:01am
If we are away for a few days, and car keys are left in the house, we wrap them up in aluminium foil.

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Toyotas C-HR, IQ, and black GT86 modified with Cosworth exhaust, brakes, supercharger and map, Eibach Pro springs, OZ alloys, fast road geo, various cosmetics inc TRD spoiler and Valenti rear lights.


Posted By: paulca
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 9:37am
I have a better solution.

Simply modify the key to include a power switch.  That could be as simple of the little plastic tab that gets slid in between the battery and the terminal like when it's new.



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From between thy hedges thou shalt not stray.


Posted By: amcluesent
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 7:36pm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4977134/Thieves-make-50-000-BMW-MINUTE.html - Gone in 60 seconds! Thieves make off with £50,000 BMW in under A MINUTE using technology from the dark web

Thieves are able to unlock the keyless cars by transmitting an amplified signal that fools the security system into opening the doors.

Last year, German Automotive Club experts tested 24 different cars of models made between 2013 and 2015 from 19 manufacturers including BMW, VW, Toyota and Ford.

They said they were able to open every car within seconds using a device that could be built out of every-day electronic items.

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http://bit.ly/2mx6PsH - My GT86


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2017 at 8:41pm
Could always make the start button removable. That would definitely slow down a thief lol


Posted By: Moves With Clouds
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2017 at 7:54pm
Ooh, looked like a close call, https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/unpatched-exploit-lets-you-clone-key-fobs-and-open-subaru-cars/ - https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/unpatched-exploit-lets-you-clone-key-fobs-and-open-subaru-cars/
but the BRZ/GT86 is not on the list of problem cars.


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Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go


Posted By: zonefx
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 11:07am
I would have no idea how to begin to steal a car using these exploits, but thanks to the press (in various forms) I now not only know how to do it, but where to purchase the equipment needed and how much it will cost me, plus a full list of vulnerable cars thrown in without even trying! Now all we need is Top Gear to add the visuals!

I have now wrapped my house in 2 layers of tin foil and renamed my cats "Faraday" 


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Dave
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Red - 2013


Posted By: Moves With Clouds
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 2:16pm
Originally posted by zonefx zonefx wrote:

I have now wrapped my house in 2 layers of tin foil and renamed my cats "Faraday" 
The house ok, but all your cats have the same name? That sounds impractical.


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Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go


Posted By: zonefx
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Moves With Clouds Moves With Clouds wrote:

The house ok, but all your cats have the same name? That sounds impractical.

The impractical bit is getting 2 identical cats! Pictured below fitted into Faraday cage Mk1:




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Dave
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Red - 2013


Posted By: church
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 3:23pm
Are both cats stock or aftermarket? There were no problems passing vet's MOT tests? :)


Posted By: zonefx
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by church church wrote:

Are both cats stock or aftermarket? There were no problems passing vet's MOT tests? :)

Both have been modded by having certain stock items removed. LOL


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Dave
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Red - 2013


Posted By: growlerkat
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 4:26pm
Because 'race cats'


Posted By: Mikey P
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2017 at 7:22pm
There is plus side least if a car thief steels a car this way, no house gets broken into, (I would rather loose my car than have my house broken into for the keys and loose my car). I doubt are cars are high enough value to be much of a target anyway.


Posted By: cts
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 8:00am
...and another one - most watched video currently on BBC news site -  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42132804/relay-crime-theft-caught-on-camera - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42132804/relay-crime-theft-caught-on-camera

I like how the advice is to get a steering wheel lock, but no mention of an RFID blocking pouch?  For anyone joining the thread here, this is the pouch I know a few of us (including myself) are using  - a set of 3 for £9.99 from Amazon that do the job well -  https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00QIEX04K/   - https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00QIEX04K/   ;


Posted By: Nasher
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 9:52am
Keyless entry was never going to be secure, but they put it on cars anyway. Now people are having to go back to 80s style steering wheel locks. The whole thing is ridiculous, but no one is saying get rid of it.


Posted By: Tony H
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 11:05am
Originally posted by cts cts wrote:

...and another one - most watched video currently on BBC news site -  http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42132804/relay-crime-theft-caught-on-camera - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-42132804/relay-crime-theft-caught-on-camera

Real professionals.  First the guy with the relay box forgets to stay in range so that the other scrote can start the car once inside, then they discover their own (or at least previously.nicked) car is blocking the exit of the Merc.

But even they were able to pull the stunt.  A rudimentary precaution like a steering lock might well have stopped them - is that why they shone a torch into the car before they started?

Then again, as has been said, is an 86 a desirable car to nick?  Hard to move on.


Posted By: Kodename47
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 3:35pm
The joys of being able to map the car.... my car won't fire up even with the key I can disable that with my phone but means that if they manage to get in and try and start up it will just keep cranking. Extra security whether I'm in or not.

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http://www.gt86ownersclub.co.uk/forum/kodename47s-blog_topic2298.html - .: Stealth 86 :.
Abbey Motorsport/K47 Tuned Sprintex 210 Supercharger

Litchfield Springs / Abbey MS Geo


Posted By: amcluesent
Date Posted: 27 Nov 2017 at 5:10pm
I vaguely recall reading you can take the battery out the GT86 fob, but open the door with the slide-out key and start the car by putting the fob close the the start button - some sort of NFC chip in there?


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http://bit.ly/2mx6PsH - My GT86



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