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Eightysix's OEM+ mods

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eightysix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 10:16pm
After a year's uncertainty and being for sale on three occasions - didn't have the heart to chop the car up and once again confirmed that you can't expect a premium for mods done,.... looks like it's sticking around for at least another year. Still enjoy driving it, maybe even more in contrast with the daily 'normal' car. And just seeing it parked up still puts a smile on my face too :)
Blue '13 86, Flex A, some bushes, E85+cat header+Milltek Res and some 20 other (minor) mods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Curve Carver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jun 2017 at 10:53pm
Hurrah!

They get under your skin don't they?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eightysix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 8:52am
As in the "what did you do to your..." topic, added some Focal speakers as I got used to better sound in the other car and they are a real improvement, much clearer balanced sound with some useful extra punch in the base for 'normal' music.

Also added some rubber isolation of the camber plates to counter added road noise of the uniball camberplates from the Tein coilovers (we have very rough roads, winter spike tyres and all that). 

Church wanted to know more:
Originally posted by church church wrote:

Eightysix: can you provide a bit more nfo/pics on that insulating camplates topic? I wonder, if it won't compromise how securely they are mounted/if they won't move, if bolts won't get undone, when rubber is compressed-decompressed. And how it helps, if bolts still hard connect chassis with camplate (thus pass roadnoise)?
It is very effective but not a completely robust modification, so you need to keep an eye on it time to time to see if the rubber holds up and the locking nuts hold up. Used 4mm nitrile (oil resistant) rubber sheet and cut a gasket that fits inbetween the camber plate top and the turret inside. Also some locking nuts with large washers (stainless) and some more of the same rubber cut to the washer shape. Make sure the studs are centered in their holes (no contact) and tighten the nuts so that there is a pretention in the rubber washers so that the plates stay in place when forces start acting upon them. Be sure to have the locking washers, the larger washers, otherwise it won't work. 

Blue '13 86, Flex A, some bushes, E85+cat header+Milltek Res and some 20 other (minor) mods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote church Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 5:18pm
Hmmm. I guess if there is rubber in-between the camplate and tower, it still will never be completely reliably secured. After all, if rubber can still compress/decompress (to work on dampening NVH), that will meant that nuts are not tightened all way down, that in turn meaning that they have greater change undo, camplate slightly moving forth and back has bigger chance to plate/bolts moving around and so on ..

Hmm, but recalling old trick on mounting bolts on slotted strut holes - of using paint/glue/epoxy/nail paint/blue loctite, to increase a LOT sticking/friction to prevent bolts moving from suspension hits & alignment getting out of whack .. what you think, can it work in this place? If you smear something sticky from both sides on rubber gasket? + for extra security of heart secure nuts with another nut bolted upon these?

Another idea - cut from metal ring that will go inside tower round hole above camplate. +drilled holes in camplate and this ring, though whose this ring will be bolted to camplate. Or ring welded to camplate. (ring - so that adjustment bolts can still .. adjust :), around adjustment bolt head/adjustment slots. If round disk instead of ring, just with hole in centre for strut top nut, one may need also longer bolts to reach through sandwich.) There still will be rubber gasket layer between this ring+camplate base & tower hole, but now it will not be just bolts to secure it in place (bolts are bad to sheering from side loads, no? usually it should be friction between two hard surfaces to secure in place, but gasket adds play/movement, leaving only thin bolts strength from breaking off), but kind of like .. stock rubber mount with it's bulb in centre with very thin rubber bushing layer there as-well. And if top of strut pushed to side, it's now not just three bolts, but also this secured ring to camplate, that will stop side movement
(no clue if it may work)

P.S.
BTW, i myself don't think that bad anymore about camplates like as after i first tried them. The more i read / talked about other people that had used camplates, i have strong conviction now that my NVH issues (loud hits on some road imperfection types, like with hammer on chassis) very probably were due dealership bocthing their install and leaving top nut not properly tightened, - as result play at pillowball & those "harsh hits".
Of course, i'll still try to get wished negative camber still with rubber mounts (found powerflex front LCA rear bushings for camber adjustment, that i hope will increase max neg. camber i could get with cambolts only. That & extra caster from whiteline bushing), but i'm almost thinking that it might be worth to try again camplates, just this time installed by competent shop.
Watched some videos of others driving twins with camplates on some very bad roads. Yes, not as if there was no impact to NVH, small rattles here & there all the time .. but certainly not big loud hits like i had, that scared me from using camplates ..


Edited by church - 26 Jun 2017 at 5:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eightysix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 6:40pm
Should not rattle or slam, good uniball is very tight, but will transmit vibration/sound.

I insisted on the large washers because you must pretention the likewise large rubber washers under by tightening the nuts. Rubber has good friction then and the plates won't move. The locking nuts keep in place by the polymer insert.
The non robust part is that rubber can settle and degenerate, thus loosing pretension causing the camplate to become loose under load. Also locking nuts (nylock) are not infallible and should only be tightened once, after that you need new ones.

Makes sense? You suggestion sound a bit complicated and will build more height... Then better to find new camplates with inbuilt bushing and redo the suspension height... which isn't adjustable anymore on mine with longer springs. Unless I change those...
Cheers

Blue '13 86, Flex A, some bushes, E85+cat header+Milltek Res and some 20 other (minor) mods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote church Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 10:07pm
No-no, stack height/topmount position should be same as you have now.
Some quick & ugly "paint" job:

- blue part. To cut from thick metallic plate. Mount to camplate with bolts or velding. Now side shearing loads/forces are not only on three mounting bolts, but on this "ring", that in addition to that also have gasket in between it & strut tower hole walls (NVH not worse). And it itself is attached to camplate with full strength. Inside cut in it allows access to adjustment of strut top mount position as before.

As for rubber properties, way i see it - it can be crashed, to not serve much at NVH dampening, but mount will be secure, or it has play/can move a bit/compress-decompress .. and mount won't be reliable. Maybe not slipping wise not-reliable, but bolts breaking off due misapplied forces non-reliable.

Think of lugcentric wheel nuts getting undone but where your wheel's hub bore is bigger then axle diameter. Lugs are not made to provide secure against forces from side to them mount to keep wheel in place, they tighten wheel to hub, create lot of friction inbetween, and that is what keeps it from moving. If just lugs with untightened lugnuts and without said friction - then it's easy to bend/break them off.

With gasket, with flexible washers you don't have that high friction between camplate & tower. It's just bolts that are weak to braking off from side forces. Or it will be securely tightened off .. and no play, no NVH dampening. So idea was to add .. camplate's "hubcentric ring" :) as seemingly simpler way then make whole new camplate's base plate from billet with rise in center of shape of stock rubber mounts.
Kind of .. stock rubber topmount, but with dampening layer just gasket-thick 2-3mm, not few centimeters of rubber as in stock. And still with camber adjustment of camplate's.


Edited by church - 26 Jun 2017 at 11:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eightysix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2017 at 11:01pm
Ok I get it, your 'hubcentric' ring is a good solution, but fairly complex to execute properly. It will remove some shear load from the screws, but in my solution, as long as you tension the nuts properly and thus pretention the rubber washers, the studs will remain loaded even if the rubber compresses from below. They are still approx 10Nm each, which on a M8 screw is a pretension of roughly 6kN,or roughly 600kg each which is a lot more then the weight of the whole wheel+suspension. With rubber friction quite high, say 0,5, that means the top turret can take a 900kg sideload before the studs are loaded in shear. With the lever of the whole strut, that is a wheel sideload of 1800kg. All roughly of course, should work.
But one needs to keep an eye on it as said as the rubber has to keep its 'spring'. And NVH reduction is effective despite the preload. Good night.

Edited by Eightysix - 27 Jun 2017 at 8:44am
Blue '13 86, Flex A, some bushes, E85+cat header+Milltek Res and some 20 other (minor) mods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MattGT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jul 2017 at 9:58am
Originally posted by Eightysix Eightysix wrote:

, as long as you tension the nuts properly and thus pretention the rubber washers, the studs will remain loaded even if the rubber compresses from below. 


^^^This.

Churches suggestion whilst bulletproof, is uneccessary and overcomplicated. Providing you have sufficient tension from both the rubber exerting on the washer and visa versa for the nut it should never come undone.
                            
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eightysix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 4:07pm
It was great having you, 4,5 good driving years thanks to you. You will be missed and fondly remembered. Hope you give the new owner lots of joy too.

The car is an inanimate object of course, but the experiences are still alive in memory.

Thanks to the members on this forum who exchanged their thoughts with me, it has been almost exclusively a great pleasure. Take care and drive safely.
Blue '13 86, Flex A, some bushes, E85+cat header+Milltek Res and some 20 other (minor) mods.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moves With Clouds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2018 at 7:57pm
Oh, it got sold! With mods or without?

Thanks for all the good advice you've given. It brought me up to speed real quick without getting lost.
Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go
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