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Direct Injector (DI) / Seal Issue

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Special K View Drop Down
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    Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 8:59am
I thought Ver3 of the Toyota remap had overcome the DI issue?
 
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Edited by Kodename47 - 15 Jun 2013 at 11:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kodename47 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 9:10am
Supposedly yes, but may depend on how much damage has been done already I guess. Also, I'm not sure what the dealers are doing about it as of yet, there are people in the US asking for the re-flash from dealers and they're saying it's not available yet. Obviously that won't necessarily tie in with how TGB or Subaru UK are dealing with it but I doubt anyone has gone and asked them for a re-flash? I think those of us with ECUtek/BRZedit are the lucky ones in this circumstance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote en8wall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 10:08am
Excuse my ignorance, what is DL issue?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Deacon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 10:14am
Originally posted by en8wall en8wall wrote:

Excuse my ignorance, what is DL issue?


DI - Direct Injection

At high rpms when lifting off the throttle there has been detonation reported which damages the direct injection system. There is supposed to be an updated map to cure the problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote en8wall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 10:22am
Deaconroc
thanks for that, something else to add to the worry bank.

BTW, think I follow you on twitter. My pic is Winston Churchill with the V sign.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Special K Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 10:50am
Yep - current 'retard' on throttle lift-off is 30degrees (Ver 1/2) - new map (Ver3) is circa 34degrees. Doesn't sound a lot but they wouldn't have issued a re-map if it wasn't worth it.. Fensports/Abbey have fuller details..
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote en8wall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 10:55am
Are TGB aware of this and issuing re-flash. I'm still on original ecu, field engineer didn't recommend first re flash as I had no and still dont have any issues. This topic needs its own thread....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 11:11am
There's so much misinformation and paranoia floating around about this issue. The American forum has gone banzai about it without truly understanding the problem. I appreciate dealerships there are just as bad as here though with a) acknowledging a problem, b) understanding it and c) fixing it successfully (without taking your car on a 200+ mile jolly).

The issue is transient det damaging the seals. It's not when you lift the throttle the problem occurs, it's when you go back on it quickly. This is called "tip-in". When you rapidly change the throttle angle, you need "tip-in fuel" and "tip-in spark". Because sensors (and the ecu) takes a few milliseconds to react to these changes, you have to put in predictive tables which ensure the engine gets the right amount of fuel and spark during those big-change transient conditions.

Now our engines, with calibrations 700, and A00 DO have transient spark tables, however for some reason (which we will never understand/find out), the transient spark table was disabled above 5200rpm. This means that if you change gear rapidly above this engine speed you are able to 'get ahead' of the ECU and get a little crack of tip-in det/knock. This isn't usually dangerous, but it appears the seals used on the direct injectors (of which I am confident are perfectly up to the job) do not appreciate the det and over time wear and cause a leak and eventually total seal/injector failure requiring replacement.

The fix in calibration A01 is to move the upper bound remit of the transient spark table from 5200 rpm to 10000rpm (e.g. always) and the actual table itself has been populated with some meaningful spark angles so it does its job up top now its actually activated.

Here's a copy of the stock 700/A00 transient spark table, as you can see it's not doing any retarding over 4000rpm:



Here's a copy (leeched from ft86club) of the Toyota docs on the issue:



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ShinyBRZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 11:29am
I've just got it! Slightly early 20k service this week included the upgrade.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Martin F Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jun 2013 at 11:35am
Nylon seems a strange choice of material for that seal !
 
Audi ones are made from a type of Teflon.
 
I think when my car goes in for it's 20k service I may be asking for an ECU update as I too have the original software from day one.
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