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Cars with keyless entry getting stolen

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRZ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 8:57pm
The only foolproof answer is the mobile, rfid signal blocker pouch linked above by Gray. They work!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nasher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 9:27pm
Just a regular biscuit tin works, I tested it. Even right next to the door the signal doesn't reach it.

But yea "keyless" systems were always a dumb idea. All someone has to do is boost the signal and you can open and start the car from as far away as you can make the signal go. The key and car are constantly looking for each other which is a huge vulnerability. With enough time you could probably hack and open the car without the key at all.

Keeping it in the fridge will kill the battery in the fob. Batteries hate cold.


Edited by Nasher - 12 Oct 2017 at 9:33pm
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Mark E Mark View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark E Mark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 10:02pm
The pros of keyless entry are minimal, the downside huge. Crap system as this thread confirms.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cts Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2017 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by Gray Gray wrote:

Someone suggested these pouches https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00QIEX04K/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (you get 3 for £9.99) and as long as you put the key in the rear slot not the front they work a treat. Cant even open the car with the pouch held to the car.

Yup, these work just great.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 8:55am
Google "Faraday cage".  Apparently a mesh with the mesh pitch of 1/2 the wavelength of the signal will block it.  This is also the reason why you don't get microwaved in the kitchen while heating a instant burger.

I wouldn't advise the fridge.  For the simple reason.... what runs down the back of you fridge and why?  To help you a bit, condensation will run down everything in the fridge, including / especially inside a closed key that has been in the warm humid air of your pocket previously.  It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:08am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

They do actually... they just insulation the hell out of the piping etc...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Moves With Clouds Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:10am
Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

Hm, I don't know what design you have in mind there. In your car the airconditioning is a way to get the humidity out of the air in the car, especially in closed circuit mode. In a fridge the complication is you keep adding humidity and never take it out.
I know, I like car analogies :)
Just keep it pointed in the general direction you want to go
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:12am
From an IT security perspective using a signal booster is an interesting one.

Most ideas to make the keys more secure I am familiar with would involve challenge/response protocols using public/private keys.

The thing about those, used in things like SSL, TLS and HTTPS on the internet, is that they are designed to be relayed multiple times by internet routers before reaching each party. Effectively the signal booster is just a router, it does not try and tamper or even view the messages, which the protocol would detect as "Man-in-the-middle", it just sends them on unaltered.

Car:  "wheres my key? <secret code>"
Booster:  "WHERES MY KEY? <SECRET CODE>"
Key: "here I am, <correct secret response>"
Booster "HERE I AM <CORRECT SECRET RESPONSE>"
Car: "Oh hi there, unlock alarmed."

Even if the secret code is dynamic, including a random number, the key will still corrected decode and respond correctly.

The thing is, if the keys were actually made properly secure the value of the stolen car would not be great as it would be very difficult to clone a key later to resell the stolen car.  The car ring shop would still need to get the encryption keys from both the car and the key fob.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote church Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:15am
Isn't this issue taken a bit too far? I'm sure that if competent thieves were set on theft, car will be stolen anyway. If not by this then by other means. Just because of this go to great lengths of shielding signal and so on ..
paulca: you have missed some of overclocking/computer modding forums. You can even buy case with such units preinstalled :), in addition to DIY moded projects.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote paulca Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Oct 2017 at 9:19am
Originally posted by Mike Mike wrote:

Originally posted by paulca paulca wrote:

It's the same reason why people do not use active refrigeration units inside PCs.

They do actually... they just insulation the hell out of the piping etc...

Do they?  They use water and oil cooling circuits, but these are passive cooling loops the same as you find in a car water circuit.  They start out at ambient temp, pass through the hot parts and end up ambient++ then the pass through a radiator (with a fan for when needed) and get cooled back to ambient.  They effectively move heat around with heat exchangers, there is no active component.

So unless your house is at 100% humidity and the temperature is at dew point, no condensation... and if it is you have condensation anyway.

A fridge differs in that the cooling circuit is 'active' in that the coolant used changes temperature BELOW ambient.  Expanding the refrigerant gas in the evaporator actively "pulls" heat from the environment dropping it significantly below ambient.  All it needs to do is drop it below dew point (usually around 6*C at sea level) and any saturated humidity will condense on the surface of the cooler.  Drop the surrounding air temperature below dew point and water will be begin to condense on every surface.

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